£1,000 S-Class v 7 Series v Lexus LS
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From: Knoxville, TN
That difference is akin to this ride difference you say exists between the 430 and 460. If it exists, its very slight and the handling payoff is huge.
The issue with the 430 is body roll, they HEAVE in the corners and its very disconcerting. The 460 (and the 400) were much flatter.
You see it in the skidpad numbers too, LS400 was .81G, LS460 .82G....LS430 an abysmal .73g. For example, a Tahoe is .72g!
The issue with the 430 is body roll, they HEAVE in the corners and its very disconcerting. The 460 (and the 400) were much flatter.
You see it in the skidpad numbers too, LS400 was .81G, LS460 .82G....LS430 an abysmal .73g. For example, a Tahoe is .72g!
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From: RightHere
The thing to remember about all this if you're strictly talking about reliability above all else at this moment in time is: yes the LS rocks. But back then it was about new consumers looking at a luxury car. What did the Bimmer and MB offer vs the LS?
S class: S320, S320 cdi, S430, S500, S55, S600 (V12). Adjustable air suspension with active body control, 4Matic awd. Did the LS offer that?
BMW 7: 730, 735, 740, 750, 760, Alpina B7. AWD xDrive. All these options for buyers. Twin turbo V6, V8 power. Did LS offer any of that?
Yes today, the German cars are maintenance heavy, but they offered more options vs the LS back in the day. Today the W220 and the 7 look way better vs the stodgy styling of the LS.
As a co-worker of mine says about her brand new GM pickup 4wd four door on a mild lift with stealth black rims and big tires... it's about the "smiles per mile".
S class: S320, S320 cdi, S430, S500, S55, S600 (V12). Adjustable air suspension with active body control, 4Matic awd. Did the LS offer that?
BMW 7: 730, 735, 740, 750, 760, Alpina B7. AWD xDrive. All these options for buyers. Twin turbo V6, V8 power. Did LS offer any of that?
Yes today, the German cars are maintenance heavy, but they offered more options vs the LS back in the day. Today the W220 and the 7 look way better vs the stodgy styling of the LS.
As a co-worker of mine says about her brand new GM pickup 4wd four door on a mild lift with stealth black rims and big tires... it's about the "smiles per mile".
Last edited by MattyG; Mar 21, 2022 at 05:47 PM.
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Unlike you I have had both, the 430 is a great reliable car, likely to be more reliable than the 460 (except that they are REALLY old now), but as a car I much preferred both the 460 and the 400.
Still not going to concede that, but I'll meet you halfway. Equal. Plenty of Lexus cars that have gone 500k miles. What about that LS430 traded in with 430k miles and the owners just wanted an SUV...that was the reason for the trade, insane.
You mean just regularly driving or racing it around? High speed confidence, I'm no new S-Class owner but I drove my LS430 at 125MPH for about 4-5 hours straight through the desolate night desert in NM and AZ. The car feels better the faster you go, amazing car at those speeds. Too bad nobody ever drives them that fast. Remember, this was the slickest car in production literally (.26 at time, .25 w/ air), run through wind tunnels, etc. People can sell these short as high speed missiles.
Put it on a backcountry road with tight corners, and the 430 becomes a real handful to drive, not enjoyable. Remember, I do that type of drive a couple times a year, I drove my 400, 430 and both my 460s on that trip dozens of times each.
Cool, you're entitled to your opinion but there are LOTS of people who swear by an LS430. I guarantee if I sold my LS (pending a wash, etc.) to the Lexus dealer and someone else dropped off an early 460, I'd just about bet my house that the 430 would be re-sold much, much faster.
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From: Maryland
To be fair that was the test on the 17" rims, not the 18"s. Not saying it doesn't have body roll but unless you go above 7/10s an LS430 is a tough car to beat for serenity and just pure luxury. That article you got the handling numbers from was a comparison test where the LS430 took first place BTW, LS460 never won anything.
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From: Maryland
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
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From: Maryland
If you want to read the thoughts of someone who was a DIE HARD 430 fan, hated the 460 .... who finally got a 460. This thread is a great read: @Striker223
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...n-me-over.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...n-me-over.html
Well, I concede. I think the 460 is holistically the best car I've owned so far, it's not the best at all in any one aspect but overall.....man it's special.
I finally had a chance to try the one thing I haven't had a chance to do yet with this car, I've had a chance to do backroads, longer distance drive/cruise, local slow drives, Christmas lights, work on it on the ground and up on the lift as well as poke around it's electronics. However up until today I never had a chance to try it on the interstate under ideal conditions and see how it does at high speed cruising.
We went about 60 miles north to visit a collector who buys and restores American classic furniture to pick out some stuff for our house, on the way up I didn't see any cops stationed up and the traffic flow was calm and consisted mainly of packs with open areas between them. I decided on the way back home since the shift change was hours off and according to a local officer no one was on that section of 71 to cruse back.
Holy crap this car is fantastic at this. Compared to the A8 it's not nearly as fast but it's so much more refined and exhibits the "glide" Lexus is so well known for. I am very impressed and pleased with how relaxed the car is at 120-130 and when it approaches a pack it's so controlled slipping through them. The A8 is rougher, and while far more powerful the engine doesn't smoothly sing it's way along, the 460 just flows along.
Great fuel economy as well, was around 17-25 the whole time, the 8 speed handles requests very well and is intentionally programmed for this I believe. It didn't try and shift stupidly even once when I partially let off or had to adjust down, stayed in the right gear the whole time.
This was the last thing to push me over the edge, everything else was quite impressive but this type of drive really exemplifies the meaning of a flagship car. The 460 did it brilliantly. It's not the fastest car ever but the experience it offers is outstanding. Truly more than a sum of it's spec sheet. The comfort and calmness it provides is something special.
It was also quite hilarious to see how riled up other cars got, when I crossed back over near Polaris when it goes down to 65-60 a Chrysler 200 was coming up full hammer down trying to catch me. I waited till he was 5-6 car lengths back to floor it and right as he came alongside me he "stopped" and started receding lol! He was going about 105 when he tried to pass, that was my last bit before taking my exit. Was a fantastic drive in a great machine. My only complaint is the stock limiter is a joke, it's way too low.
I wish we had sections here where we could drive better cars to their ability legally......such a shame so few of these cars will ever get to really run how they are meant to. Even worse is so many owners never get to really drive their cars!
I finally had a chance to try the one thing I haven't had a chance to do yet with this car, I've had a chance to do backroads, longer distance drive/cruise, local slow drives, Christmas lights, work on it on the ground and up on the lift as well as poke around it's electronics. However up until today I never had a chance to try it on the interstate under ideal conditions and see how it does at high speed cruising.
We went about 60 miles north to visit a collector who buys and restores American classic furniture to pick out some stuff for our house, on the way up I didn't see any cops stationed up and the traffic flow was calm and consisted mainly of packs with open areas between them. I decided on the way back home since the shift change was hours off and according to a local officer no one was on that section of 71 to cruse back.
Holy crap this car is fantastic at this. Compared to the A8 it's not nearly as fast but it's so much more refined and exhibits the "glide" Lexus is so well known for. I am very impressed and pleased with how relaxed the car is at 120-130 and when it approaches a pack it's so controlled slipping through them. The A8 is rougher, and while far more powerful the engine doesn't smoothly sing it's way along, the 460 just flows along.
Great fuel economy as well, was around 17-25 the whole time, the 8 speed handles requests very well and is intentionally programmed for this I believe. It didn't try and shift stupidly even once when I partially let off or had to adjust down, stayed in the right gear the whole time.
This was the last thing to push me over the edge, everything else was quite impressive but this type of drive really exemplifies the meaning of a flagship car. The 460 did it brilliantly. It's not the fastest car ever but the experience it offers is outstanding. Truly more than a sum of it's spec sheet. The comfort and calmness it provides is something special.
It was also quite hilarious to see how riled up other cars got, when I crossed back over near Polaris when it goes down to 65-60 a Chrysler 200 was coming up full hammer down trying to catch me. I waited till he was 5-6 car lengths back to floor it and right as he came alongside me he "stopped" and started receding lol! He was going about 105 when he tried to pass, that was my last bit before taking my exit. Was a fantastic drive in a great machine. My only complaint is the stock limiter is a joke, it's way too low.
I wish we had sections here where we could drive better cars to their ability legally......such a shame so few of these cars will ever get to really run how they are meant to. Even worse is so many owners never get to really drive their cars!
Lexus Champion
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From: Knoxville, TN
How many miles have you put on the LS460? I've put ~ 100,000 miles on them, and 100,000 miles on an LS430. You are correct there were material issues early in the 460s run, but thats not what I'm talking about and those issues were dealt with as the 460 went through refreshes. I'm talking about the suspension and mechanicals of the car. The 460 got 100 more HP and a much more sophisticated suspension. The other side of that was they have more to go wrong. Its a tradeoff.v
So I don't think we are going to see eye to eye here, lol.
Lexus Champion
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From: Knoxville, TN
Let’s put it this way.
Pick a random Lexus dealer from online yellow pages. theoretically lets say there’s either a mint ‘06 430 or mint ‘07 460 which do they want? I bet you 10:1 LS430 would be the choice.
Pick a random Lexus dealer from online yellow pages. theoretically lets say there’s either a mint ‘06 430 or mint ‘07 460 which do they want? I bet you 10:1 LS430 would be the choice.
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From: Maryland
I'm not invalidating your claims but I feel you exaggerate "handful to drive"? Seriously? It's not a car to be hustled through the mountains but come on, just about nothing upsets the serenity in a 430. You also said the LX was a handful to drive also and it isn't at all, to me at least. Then you said the 18"s in LS430 made you pick the 17"s bc of the ride whereas I can tell no difference whatsoever after driving the car for literally a decade on the 17"s.
Originally Posted by AJT123
Then you said the 18"s in LS430 made you pick the 17"s bc of the ride whereas I can tell no difference whatsoever after driving the car for literally a decade on the 17"s.
I no longer have an LS, I have no horse in this race, I've had all of them except the very first generation and the current generation. I think you'll find if you talk to others who have had both, you will find that most preferred their 460. Some have already posted here.
Last edited by SW17LS; Mar 21, 2022 at 06:35 PM.
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From: RightHere
That's not a fair comparison, lol. You're taking a last year model vs a first year model - comparing lemons and apples. The 460 is far more capable and advanced compared to a 430. It is two different platforms and two different cycles in car engineering.
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‘What in your opinion was the better engine? 4.3 or 4.6
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Its a function of being a much more complex car. The 460 has more sophisticated multi-link suspension like an S Class, trade off is control arm failures. If you could replace just the bushings (as you can on the S Class) it wouldnt be a big deal. The 460 has an electronic brake actuator which the 430 and 400 didnt have, that was very early tech and thats an issue point. If you put a 400, 430 and 460 up on a lift and put my S560 up side by side you would see the 460 is a lot more like the S560. The 460 is a more substantial and dynamic car, but that comes at the cost of complexity.
There absolutely have been S Classes as reliable as the 90-06 LS models, the W116 and the W126 S Classes were legendarily reliable. But, they got very complex when they went to the W140...
If you take care of an S Class it will take care of you too, the W220 notwithstanding. It just costs more to take care of it. If you think the LS is a missle on the interstate, you gotta drive an S Class. Makes the 430 and 400 feel like a Grand Marquis, the 460 less so.
They aren't at all. Not enough data in CR to make a judgement but when you watch the forums, they are surprisingly reliable, especially the W222. Really aren't any common trouble points.
There absolutely have been S Classes as reliable as the 90-06 LS models, the W116 and the W126 S Classes were legendarily reliable. But, they got very complex when they went to the W140...
If you take care of an S Class it will take care of you too, the W220 notwithstanding. It just costs more to take care of it. If you think the LS is a missle on the interstate, you gotta drive an S Class. Makes the 430 and 400 feel like a Grand Marquis, the 460 less so.
They aren't at all. Not enough data in CR to make a judgement but when you watch the forums, they are surprisingly reliable, especially the W222. Really aren't any common trouble points.
The early 5.5/4.7 non-turbo engines from Mercedes have serious issues that lingered until the 4.0, even the AMG 6.3 had/have some severe issues that to be fair once addressed leave you with an amazing engine. Trans were generally good unless the owner is stupid in some way, I have seen far less "random" issues with the 221 than 220 and the 22/23 are still new enough I have nothing to report but they are looking good so far.
Audi I absolutely would rank ABOVE the 460 for ease of working on and honestly overall reliability of the driveline, rest of the car not so much but the important bit's I would trade for in a heartbeat. If I could have the Audi's driveline/suspension in the LS that would be perfection