No offense, but if you haven't sat in one I don't see how you can have that opinion. Having sat in and driven all of them, the difference is really significant. The CX-5 feels a whole segment above the other competitors in material quality and choices and quality feel when driving, NVH isolation etc. It really does feel like it should be compared to small luxury crossovers costing way more. Until you've driven them yourself or at least sat in one, I'm not sure how you can tell me I'm wrong

Its a trim level, with nice leather and real wood which otherwise are unavailable at that price point. Thats all it is. Carmakers have been making mainstream models that feel premium forever.

Once the new CX-5 comes out and its on a real RWD layout, then it really will deliver on what it delivers on already in many ways.

 

Exactly Steve, but sometimes people just have their perspective on things and will double down on it, no matter how negative and overly opinionated. Between this CX-5 and unfounded criticisms towards the new U725 Bronco interior, it is very obvious when someone is nitpicking for the hell of it.

2022 CX-5

2022 CX-5

CX-5 Signature 2.5T

U725 Bronco

U725 Bronco

How do these even look as claimed? They're decent.

I like taking a break from this forum, when such bitter discussion becomes way too much to deal with for me. The CX-50 is coming and the CX-5 will supplant it for some 18-24 months stateside.

The idea is to get US buyers acquainted with the CX-50 and then drop CX-5 later on. Just so price shock doesn't happen so immediately. Problem I do have is, the new and improved dealer plan for Mazda is working in some places, but they are still struggling with those who refuse to update their franchise and retrain staff to deal with customers better.



Modern Mazda Franchise Design

Modern Dealer Franchise
Dated 2000s Zoom-Zoom era, Retail Revolution Franchise Design
Dated 1990s Mazda Dealer Franchise Design

Those last two will continue to be a symptom of Mazda's problems, just as much as powerless powertrains and lack of HEV/PHEV/BEVs.

(That being said, for the first time in 9 years, just created my ignore list for piece of mind and while no moderators are on it for administrative reasons, it does me great to bypass negative commentary)

 

The new Mazda dealers are really nice. Shows their upmarket intentions. The one here that I went to has already been done

 

The only Mazda of late I had driven was the smaller Mazda3. Not at all my cup of tea and the interior design and exterior was just not for me.. So, no haven't ever driven the Mazda5, now I think of it, Mazda offers something totally unique compared the Camry 3.5 with their turbo motor.

I have only really sat in a new Legacy recently. I think it is really nice in top trim, but there is a lot of screen real estate. I just don't see Subaru and Mazda in the same thought...both on our their own unique islands....its kinda like the buyer of each just doesn't want a "Toyota" or a "Honda" so they get a Mazda or a Subaru because they are different

 

It's just marketing. Mazda's marketing for their upscale push has been... well, it's made me cringe at times. The marketing does seem to oversell at times, but that's what marketing does. It's supposed to get you in the dealership so you can either sit in one and snicker, or sit in one and admire - either way, they want you to sit in one so they can put a salesperson in the passenger seat.

I won't disagree that the interior looks "plain", but you could say the same thing about Audi's exterior design language. It's pretty "plain" compared to it's competitors, but a lot of people like it because to them, they look subtle, understated, refined. For me, Mazda interiors are like that, and that's why I like them. I would agree that the tombstone/tablet display could use some better integration into the dash to make it look more cohesive.

 

i only mentioned subaru because 15-20 years ago their sales volumes were about the same and now subaru is double mazda's. subaru's doing something right.

 

Theyve found a niche that works for them for sure. Very different than Mazda though.

 

Subaru, arguably, does do full-time car-based AWD better than anyone else in the industry. My 2006 Outback, even without snow tires, was unstoppable in anything winter could throw at it in a D.C. climate. They have a relatively simple but effective Symmetrical system with a low number of moving parts. Since then, they have swapped out some mechanical parts (like the LSD) for electronic torque-control, but still have a good reputation in winter...they are not the Official brand of the U.S. Olympic Ski Team for nothing.

To some extent, they are living off of their past, even as a cult-brand, as their boxer-engines, CVTs, and rear-wheel bearings have had issues for a number of years. But, despite that, sales keep roaring along.

 

this is true, but this is not why they do so well.

Subaru does so well because they have convinced many many people that they need Subaru's AWD system over competitors, which in a vast majority of cases, just isn't true.

 

Subaru also has found a strong following in several demographic groups that does very well for them.

 

Yes, they've improved. It helps even more when all dealers are on the same page, but what I have seen is some of the dealers, who opened up a franchise in recent years using the old "Retail Revolution" Zoom-Zoom theme, are stubbornly refusing to change the facilities or retrain their staff. The end result, is putting off potential buyers.

And those are questions Mazda needs to be asking themselves? Where do they fit in overall? Is it finally time for Mazda to ascend upward? Do they intend to sort out legroom issues?



Someone I recommended Mazda this past summer, being that my grandfather was a Mazda distributor many decades ago and almost got into Amati, actually passed on my suggestion.



I see how Mazda an underdog fighting for market share and what they're trying to do to achieve that, but they still have to make sure that the product meets practical needs as well.



That family friend who lives down south in a medium-sized Southwest metro, wanted to buy a new additional vehicle for their crowded household.



Recently their kids in their mid-late 20s, returned home due to COVID. Younger daughter leases a 2020 RAV4 XLE Premium and older son, drives a decade old Audi S5 6MT coupe. To their chagrin, they avoid the son's car (cuz manual) and out of some weird desperation, use their daughter's RAV4 when available. Why? Their own cars are the issue.



This couple in their late 50s to early 60s, where the wife is a nurse practitioner and husband a busy urologist, used to own a lot of older cars as spares and sold them all off, to lease new luxury cars per my suggestion years ago.



They lament their long commutes are too much on their 2019 MB S560 and 2019 X6 xDrive35i M-Sport, where the S560 has a 36/10k term and is already getting up there in mileage.



Their original plan was to rely on daughter's idle 2017 Nissan Rogue on (previous) lease as "the beater", while she was living in NYC with my younger sister and pay it monthly for her. Well she returned when NYC was on high alert and took back her keys. Got a RAV4.



This past summer, they wanted a new 5-seater Japanese crossover like her RAV4, with an emphasis on smooth powertrain, great legroom, and excellent reliability. Max budget was $40,000 OTD to be paid for in cash.



The last Mazda they had was in the 1990s, the same generation early 90s 626 as my parents had and IIRC it gave them problems about a decade into its life.



The sister/sister-in-law had a 2008 CX-7, she left behind after moving overseas and the family generally disliked it. Older daughter had a 2016 CX-5 Sport, which she was less than enthused about as well and replaced with a CPO '19 RAV4.



I often have been the one giving automotive shopping advice, when I can and guiding them in the right direction. Being limited to dealers within a 15 minute driving distance (no loaners) and Japanese/Korean being a must, they only had a Honda, Mazda, and Nissan dealer nearby. Rejected my Ford+employee discount suggestion, which is the closest to them overall. (didn't care for Escape/Edge)



Nearest 3 Toyota dealers, were 30 to 45 minutes away each.


After opening the rear door to a 2021 CX-5 Signature, the husband looked inside and slammed the door shut, lamenting that the legroom was "appalling". This had been after at least considering a 2020 Tiguan SE-L Premium 4MOTION R-Line from the adjacent VW store. They reluctantly settled on a 2021 Honda Passport Sport (dealer only had Elites at $45-50k) due to markups.



The husband didn't mind the size of the CX-9, while the wife hated the idea of another 3-row and said it was "too big". The dealership experience paled in comparison to what Mazda seems to be shooting towards and that is due to the franchise holder's stubbornness to revamp his facilities. Their other Mazda dealer (newly built standalone), ironically in a much less ritzy side of town, fit the new Mazda dealer template, but was too far away from them by 50 minutes.



The dated dealership they went to was part of a multi-brand auto mall and not standalone, yet is situated in an area where the typical household income is $126,000. The nicer standalone store was in a region, where the typical household income is $39,000. Quite disastrous.


How are they going to sell to discerning customers in such a region, if the standards are below par and then the other showroom which meets the standards, is too out of the way?



Like Genesis, Mazda USA are gonna be stuck in a rut, if they don't force that higher standard universally and provide incentives for ALL U.S. Mazda dealers to do so.

Mazda need to add something between the CX-9 and CX-5, which suits empty-nesters like this couple. CX-50 needs to be that vehicle and still have great legroom or maybe CX-70. CX-5 as it stands, fails to do this and probably turns off many buyers for that reason.

 

I think once they position themselves in between mainstream and luxury and really start selling vehicles that provide a luxury platform for less they’ll have their niche.

 

From what I understand, Amati never really existed, except on paper. Ford owned a significant potion of Mazda at the time, and wouldn't give the final sign-off for it because of cost concerns.

The first U.S.-market Amati was supposed to be the Mllenia, which introduced the Miller-cycle four as an option, but, with Amati's cancellation, ended up being sold alongside the 929 as one of Mazda's two flagship sedans. Perhaps it was just as good that the Amati division never took off.....I wasn't very impressed with either the 929 or the Millenia, and felt they both had some faults as luxury sedans. The Millenia, in particular, did not seem solidly built (creaks and squeaks), and IMO it felt more like an appliance than a Mazda-designed sedan of that price-range should. The 929 felt more solid, but the drivetrain was poorly-coordinated between the engine and 4AT transmission, and easily spun the rear wheels starting off, even with light-throttle on dry pavement....that was shortly before traction-control began hitting the market.

 

Hmm...having told this story a few months back, Amati was ready to go in 1992. My grandfather, although not based in USA, was already selling BMWs and Mazdas. He wanted to have a middle offering, which would be Amati. He had yet to get such approval wouldn't be able to do so at least 12-18 months into product lifecycle.

Amati was created in 1988, in response to Acura and Lexus, as well Mitsubishi wanting to introduce a premium Diamante/Sigma to USA. By October of 1988, designers in Yokohama started working on proposals on a range of luxury saloons that would compete with the Acura, Lexus, and Infiniti ranges, the latter due in September 1989 and November 1989. Amati was due for launch in 1994. Mazda developed a revolutionary 12-cylinder engine, to sit under the hood of the flagship vehicle called 1000.

On December 24, 1988 before the holiday break, Mazda management approved the final design for the redesigned 1992 Mazda 929 sedan due 3 years out in US showrooms (November 1991).



Inspired, they took that as the starting template for the new Amati 12-cylinder flagship.

The final design for this flagship vehicle was later signed off by Mazda management in Hiroshima in July of 1990. Prototypes were built and development essentially finished of this flagship in late 1992. Design freeze was in early 1991. Midsize car was also completed during 1990 and sent to testing by 1991. Entry level offering had been designed much earlier during 1989 and ready to go. They were all shown to Mazda and Amati dealers in September 1991 at a private event.







With the collapse of the Japanese Bubble Economy in early 1992, they tried to salvage it and push through to production, reluctantly canning the project in October 1992, after developing a 3-4 tiered range of vehicles. SC 400 (June 1991) competitor in Cosmo coupe, LS 400 (September 1989) competitor in W12 Amati 1000, later ES 300 (October 1991) competitor in Amati 500 (Mazda Millenia), and smaller Amati 300 (Xedos 6) against Acura Integra and later Infiniti G20 (September 1990).


The idea Amati "just existed on paper", was never reality. All the vehicles were developed and due for U.S. launch in early 1994. The Amati 300 became the European market Eunos 500 (Xedos 6) and Amati 500 became the Mazda Millennia (Xedos 9), launched in February 1994 for the 1995 model year, having gone through massive decontenting to lower the price point. It also previously became available in JDM in 1993, after severe decontenting from 1992 to 1993 as well.

After 1995, Mazda tried to resurrect Amati and Ford management (Sir Alexander Trotman) at the time discouraged it extremely, shutting it down. The remnants of the 1995 Amati 1000, appeared in an overseas update to the Mazda 929 in late 1995 (designed in 1993).



If Amati had gone into production successfully, 929 would've gone the way of the Cressida and become an Avalon competitor or died out plainly, in favor of a more upmarket 626 (happened with 6). Millenia would've been more opulent and only in Amati showrooms.

One is afraid the same might become of this latest effort to go upmarket. Motorola tried to touch on this a few months back, even if I strongly disagreed with the dour outlook.

 

I don't remember the story, but will take your word for it.

I remember sampling a Diamante. Very impressive. Especially with a little tweaking, it would have made an excellent luxury-grade sedan for Mitsu.