It would probably take a Toyota engineer to answer this for sure, But I suspect one of the reasons we don't see fold-under/Stow-and-Go seats in the Sienna is the design of the optional AWD hardware, underneath the floorpan, blocking the under-floor-space for the stowed seats themselves. Even the new Kia Carnival (formerly Sedona), which is a state-of-the art design, does not (as I understand it) offer AWD with its folding seats.....although Chrysler, with the new 2Gen Pacifica, seems to have found a way to combine the two.

 

With the seats all the way up, apparently you get a 73x48 area which can fit a 75 inch TV. Trying to remove the second row seats sounds like a huge headache

https://www.siennachat.com/threads/r...e-seats.65707/

 

if that's not big enough, you've got other problems, rent a u-haul.

 

To me with this sort of vehicle, styling is way down the list. They are all ugly, its just about which ones are less ugly.

 

That statement really doesn't make any sense. Lots of people who buy minivans, believe it or not, do so for the full volume capacity and the utility of having a flat floor. They redesigned the console on the new Pinnacle Pacifica trim and because of that it no longer will fit a full sheet of plywood in the back with the hatch closed. You should have heard the uproar on the Pacifica forums. Several people are suing Chrysler for false advertising and want their Pinnacles replaced with Limiteds for the old console so they will fit a sheet of plywood because that was the primary reason they bought the van. You wouldn't think people buying a $58,000 Pinnacle Pacifica would be hauling plywood but there you go.

In my move, I have at least 50 times since April stowed the second row seats and stuffed the Pacifica entirely full of stuff to take to the dump, or move from here to there. If I lost that 3 foot depth it would have required more trips and you bet I would have been cussing those seats.

Its not something I primarily do, and at this point my full van hauling is done so when shopping for a van it wouldn't really sway my decision but there are a LOT of minivan buyers out there for whom inability to remove the second row is a 100% deal killer. Poor design move to design something that way.

 

All the vans have pros and cons. IMO, the Toyota Sienna pros are better than the pros form other brands.

 

Have you ever driven or tried out any of them? My guess is no.

What are those pros? The only 2 I can think of are fuel economy and predicted Toyota reliability. The second one is a HUGE pro, but the first one comes with a considerable tradeoff.

 

No. Haven’t driven all of them. Haven’t own all of them either.

 

It's not just about "Stow and Go"; I don't believe any other automaker currently offers a similar feature in their minivan - the Toyota 2nd row seats, at least on the higher trims with the recliner style seats, don't even fold.

 

Hard to say one vehicle is the best vehicle in the segment if you havent driven all of the vehicles. Bottom line is, you like Toyota and thus think the Sienna is the best van. When you take that out of the equation I cant see any positives for the Sienna over the other vans except for the two things I mentioned. Thats why the latest comparison rated it last despite being the second newest entry.

 

I think the fuel economy as well as the reliability part are what make the Sienna the Best Buy. Of course, you don’t full buy your car as you lease them…that said, if it were a lease then it’s a different story. I would never lease a Toyota ever!! My brother is on his second Sienna 2015 as his first one was a 2004. My other brother had the Korean minivan I think it was Sedona as it was complete crap. My brother with the Sienna also has a Palisade now. Also, the Sienna has awd in all configurations as well so that is tempting too. I like the styling of the new Sienna as well as the interior design. But the price is a little high. But to make it 10 years minimum, I would not recommend the Chrysler or the KIA.

 

Those are the two benefits, but when you buy a vehicle for the sort of family utility that a minivan brings, the Sienna has some considerable downsides that for a lot of buyers trump those benefits, including me. The lack of ability to remove the second row is huge, and there are other interior packaging decisions that just don't make sense. For living with a van day in and day out with young kids the Sienna is not the best design by a mile. For me since I travel in the mountains with the vehicle loaded down, the low power and CVT drivetrain of the Sienna was a huge drawback too. Fuel economy is great but it a non factor for me when I purchase a car.

As far as reliability, even with a lease you don't want a vehicle thats always in the shop trust me. Thats why I rolled the dice on another Pacifica though, it really is the best overall design (having not yet sampled the Carnival).

My 2015 Sedona was very well made. And seeing that your brother who had the crappier older Sienna got a Palisade and is happy with it, he would be happy with a new Carnival too.

 

lol 😃 I agree that is just insane amount of space

 

Brother still has the 15 Sienna. Since 2004, his Siennas have been mechanically flawless. Performed proper every time. We shall see how well the Palisades holds up. It’s less than a year old, but he likes it very much.

 

You actually made my point. A 26 ft box uhaul is $40/day to rent. You'd have to make a lot less than 50 trips using that and you could put enough plywood in it to build a house.

I know people want their minivans to be a do everything vehicle, but there's always trade-offs.