According to Jalopnick, Lexus going full electric.
02-02-21, 09:34 AM
#61
Pole Position
Absolutely the barriers will be removed. For most drivers they will never need to recharge anywhere but home. Condos and apartments will build charging spaces and allow owners to install units to their spaces, this is already happening.
When you have 4-500+mile range on an overnight charge, that is all the range the vast majority of buyers need for a week, let alone a day. That range is basically here now. Imagine in 5 years. 10 years.
When you have 4-500+mile range on an overnight charge, that is all the range the vast majority of buyers need for a week, let alone a day. That range is basically here now. Imagine in 5 years. 10 years.
02-02-21, 09:40 AM
#62
Lexus Champion
02-02-21, 09:41 AM
#63
Pole Position
Remember I help people sell and buy condos and manage apartment buildings. There are absolutely more and more charging stations going into condo lots, condos allowing owners to install chargers at their spaces etc. This will accelerate as more and more people have electric cars.
You will also find businesses installing chargers at more and more spaces, and once charge times come down you can have all the charge you need while you grocery shop. Once there is money to be made charging peoples BEV, you will be able to charge them all over the place.
10-15 years from now or less, you will get a full charge in 10 minutes.m
Teslas can now. As technology improves all BEVs will be able to.
Nobody is saying you wont have
They will be able to charge on the street, and other places they park their cars. They'll be able to quick charge in 10 minutes the way they refuel now.
You guys are all looking at this through the lens of how it is now. We're talking 15 years down the road here.
You will also find businesses installing chargers at more and more spaces, and once charge times come down you can have all the charge you need while you grocery shop. Once there is money to be made charging peoples BEV, you will be able to charge them all over the place.
10-15 years from now or less, you will get a full charge in 10 minutes.m
Teslas can now. As technology improves all BEVs will be able to.
Nobody is saying you wont have
They will be able to charge on the street, and other places they park their cars. They'll be able to quick charge in 10 minutes the way they refuel now.
You guys are all looking at this through the lens of how it is now. We're talking 15 years down the road here.
I have been to NYC many times. How do you fuel your cars now? You will be able to charge your EV in the same manner and just as quickly. Nobody is saying that EV chargers are going to be free to use, they will be built by people who want to make money off of them.
The market will drive ingenuity here.
The market will drive ingenuity here.
There are private car garages all over the city but they only have a few charging spots, maybe 2 to 3 at most right by the entrance. I'm not sure how they can retrofit those garages with charging ports when cars are being moved constantly like dominos to cram as many cars as possible into the garage.
02-02-21, 09:53 AM
#64
Lexus Fanatic
Age affects everybody eventually. I've seen my dad drive and I wish the self-driving technology were even further along for people like him. I'm happy that when i get to his age, I'll be able to utilize a system to get me from point A to point B and allow me to be completely self-sufficient vs. having someone drive me around. In 10 years time, we will be thanking pioneers like Waymo and Tesla for advancing this technology so quickly.
All of which are very well controlled in a Lexus LS.
02-02-21, 09:57 AM
#65
Lexus Champion
It is much harder to sound deaden an EV because weight is already an issue. See several German EV models they are quiet but very heavy and as a result not efficient. There are other reasons as well but the heft doesn't help.
02-02-21, 10:00 AM
#66
Lexus Test Driver
You think its going to require MORE environmental clearance to convert a gas station to EV charging? Do you have any idea how hard it is to get clearance to build a new gas station? EV charging stations have no environmental impact compared to gas stations. There are Government credits out there today to REMOVE gas stations.
Gas stations won't convert 100% all at once, They will replace some pumps with chargers over time. EV chargers are cheap, certainly far far cheaper than gas pumps and tanks etc.
When demand increases, they won't at all be out of their minds to convert to also provide EV charging. Its another revenue stream. The free market will work here.
Gas stations won't convert 100% all at once, They will replace some pumps with chargers over time. EV chargers are cheap, certainly far far cheaper than gas pumps and tanks etc.
When demand increases, they won't at all be out of their minds to convert to also provide EV charging. Its another revenue stream. The free market will work here.
02-02-21, 10:04 AM
#67
Lexus Fanatic
I was referring to the Environmental clearance needed to remove gas station property and convert it to another use. This is common in NY as many were converted to Condo buildings. There are significant costs associated of converting an existing gas station to any other property - not only does it need to be approved by State/city. Banks have their own guidelines for environmental clearance to finance a property whose previous use was gas station.
And like I said a gas station owner doesnt have to convert 100% immediately. If he's no longer selling as much gas and he can sell charging...he's gonna want to do that.
02-02-21, 10:09 AM
#68
Lexus Test Driver
The government provides credits to remove gas station equipment. I was involved in a deal a few years ago where a lot a gas station was on was converted to a bank and everything was removed. There are federal EPA credits.
And like I said a gas station owner doesnt have to convert 100% immediately. If he's no longer selling as much gas and he can sell charging...he's gonna want to do that.
And like I said a gas station owner doesnt have to convert 100% immediately. If he's no longer selling as much gas and he can sell charging...he's gonna want to do that.
Why would gas supplier allow this?
Not to mention the investment it would take to make this feasible for the gas station owner.
The federal EPA credit is minuscule and doesn’t come close to the cleanup/monitoring costs you will incur to do it properly with following Environmental requirements. Hence the only companies in NY that undertake such a task are RE developers who can sell the units for a reasonable ROI.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 02-02-21 at 10:12 AM.
02-02-21, 10:21 AM
#69
Lexus Test Driver
Again you can’t just add charging ports to an existing gas station.
Why would gas supplier allow this?
Not to mention the investment it would take to make this feasible for the gas station owner.
The federal EPA credit is minuscule and doesn’t come close to the cleanup/monitoring costs you will incur to do it properly with following Environmental requirements. Hence the only companies in NY that undertake such a task are RE developers who can sell the units for a reasonable ROI.
Why would gas supplier allow this?
Not to mention the investment it would take to make this feasible for the gas station owner.
The federal EPA credit is minuscule and doesn’t come close to the cleanup/monitoring costs you will incur to do it properly with following Environmental requirements. Hence the only companies in NY that undertake such a task are RE developers who can sell the units for a reasonable ROI.
Electric stations have a very different logistics algorithm than gas stations. It will depend on area and how many have homes vs. city density. If you are in dense urban areas, you probably need more Superchargers as many won't have home charging. In more sprawled out suburban areas, home charging is way more prevalent.
EV stations are so cheap to install though. I honestly think places like Starbucks will install them so patrons will just come in and drink while the car is charging. This paradigm is yet to be fully exploited but when it comes, it will be a different world than the traditional gas station model.
02-02-21, 10:28 AM
#70
Lexus Fanatic
Again you can’t just add charging ports to an existing gas station.
Why would gas supplier allow this?
Not to mention the investment it would take to make this feasible for the gas station owner.
The federal EPA credit is minuscule and doesn’t come close to the cleanup/monitoring costs you will incur to do it properly with following Environmental requirements. Hence the only companies in NY that undertake such a task are RE developers who can sell the units for a reasonable ROI.
Why would gas supplier allow this?
Not to mention the investment it would take to make this feasible for the gas station owner.
The federal EPA credit is minuscule and doesn’t come close to the cleanup/monitoring costs you will incur to do it properly with following Environmental requirements. Hence the only companies in NY that undertake such a task are RE developers who can sell the units for a reasonable ROI.
As for the chargers, like EZZ said this already exists. Fuel suppliers will get in on the business also. Like I said, charging units are cheap, a gas pump costs more than a charging unit.
You're looking at this through the lens of what the fuel refilling business model is now. It won’t be that way.
02-02-21, 11:07 AM
#71
Moderator: LFA, Clubhouse
I bet its mostly hybrid. It seems Toyota thinks BEV isn't the future as the CEO seems against it. I bet the entire lineup is hybrid and will only have 1 BEV as an experiment. I hope they develop a more performance hybrid in their sport offerings. The current hybrids are dreadfully slow.
Maybe the better way to put it is that TMC does not 100% believe that the future is BEVs. The additional question is, even if they plan on making a BEV, whether they are going to try to compete on current gen batteries - which seems very unlikely given supply issue and domestic lack of resources.
02-02-21, 11:20 AM
#72
Lexus Test Driver
You are not correct. In my example the federal credits covered the cost of all the removal.
As for the chargers, like EZZ said this already exists. Fuel suppliers will get in on the business also. Like I said, charging units are cheap, a gas pump costs more than a charging unit.
You're looking at this through the lens of what the fuel refilling business model is now. It won’t be that way.
As for the chargers, like EZZ said this already exists. Fuel suppliers will get in on the business also. Like I said, charging units are cheap, a gas pump costs more than a charging unit.
You're looking at this through the lens of what the fuel refilling business model is now. It won’t be that way.
In Manhattan- there are maybe a handful of gas stations left. The boroughs have also seen a lot of the older ones converted to Condo buildings. Therefore space in the existing ones is extremely limited to add chargers even if they wanted to.
Unless in next 15yrs you can get a full charge in 5-10minutes, I don’t see how EVs can be viable solution in urban areas for folks that don’t have garages.
All this ofcourse doesn’t even address the biggest issue which is the power grids in NYC at least are not capable to provide the energy to power millions of cars all at the same time.
Will we achieve this in 50yrs - yes definitely but not in 15-20.
02-02-21, 12:32 PM
#73
Lexus Fanatic
02-02-21, 02:10 PM
#74
Lexus Champion
We put drilling platforms in the middle of the Arctic ocean but converting a gas station to have electrical outlets. Nah, that's way too hard let's keep burning gas.
02-02-21, 02:21 PM
#75
Lexus Test Driver
In the last 6 months, they put up 4 new Supercharger stations in my city. It was literally put up overnight because its MUCH EASIER to install these than gas stations. A cash strapped company like Tesla put up thousands of stations across the US because the cost isn't all that great. Of course in the long run, the grid will have to be upgraded to support these stations but the stations themselves will have no issues with rollout.