MM Retro Write-Up: First-Generation Toyota Avalon.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,284
Likes: 487
From: Long Island
Really what the LS was similar to in the Cadillac lineup was the Seville, not the Fleetwood. And in the Lincoln lineup, the Continental not the Town Car. Way more sophisticated than those cars too but they were similar in size. When my Dad bought each of those cars he cross shopped the LS400, and ultimately it was after he had both of those cars he upgraded to an LS400, he never considered the big BOF Cadillacs or Lincolns
And, Och, while I respect the fact that some people (and pets) do get carsick, I fail to see how a softly-spring car alone can cause it. My and my CFI both spent a lot of hours in light aircraft bouncing in turbulence and occasionally pulling some G-forces, so I'm familiar wth motion sickness (my CFI was almost immune to it LOL). But, usually, it takes a lot of up-and-down motion to cause it (which effects the fluid in the inner-ear, causing the nausea sensation)...not just simply riding in a car with a marshmallow suspension. In fact, stiff suspensions are probably more likely to actually cause carsickness, as they generally produce more abrupt up/down motions.
Also, give your aviation career, I assume you've done some "flying" on a flight simulator? Have you ever done flight simulation with VR goggles?
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,521
Likes: 261
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
There, maybe we get into some apples and oranges. Though nominally a full-size sedan (stretched Camry) by the EPA standards of the time, the Avalon was significantly smaller than a Town Car, totally different in its layout (FWD/unibody vs. RWD/body-on-frame), much more tightly-built with a better level of QC, and better response to steering.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,834
Likes: 4,107
From: Maryland
The main difference is that the Town Car had extremely long overhangs, particularly in the rear, which, along with low spring-rates (assuming you didn't have the optional air-suspension) added to the weight affecting the front-rear springs and the tendency for a soft bob-up/down effect. But I never found it anything like the levels it took me to get airsick.
Remember everybody is different when it comes to getting motion sick. Some people never get motion sick in any scenario.
While I won't question your sister getting sick (obviously, you rode wth her, and heard her complain), in general, it would be quite unusual in that-vintage ES, because while the ES300 had a very comfortable ride, it wasn't particularly soft and bobby. The 60/65-series tires and 16" wheels were almost perfect for a comfortable combination of ride and handling in most normal driving.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,284
Likes: 487
From: Long Island
There, maybe we get into some apples and oranges. Though nominally a full-size sedan (stretched Camry) by the EPA standards of the time, the Avalon was significantly smaller than a Town Car, totally different in its layout (FWD/unibody vs. RWD/body-on-frame), much more tightly-built with a better level of QC, and better response to steering.
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,521
Likes: 261
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
OK...sorry if I was being condescending. I did not mean for my comment to sound as such..or to be offensive.
Sometimes we go on so many times about a vehicle that we can end up repeating ourselves needlessly.
ClubLexus Stories
Celebrating Lexus & Toyota from Around the Globe
10 Lexus Bargains That are Cheaper Than a New Toyota RAV4
Joe Kucinski
8 Weirdest Things Lexus Has Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
10 Lexus Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
8 Tips for Improving Your Hybrid or Plug-in Hybrid's Efficiency!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Best Lexus Models No One Remembers
Joe Kucinski
TRD Off-Road Premium: Best 2026 4Runner, Except This One Thing
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Lexus & Toyotas to Drive Before You Die!
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Lexus/Toyotas With The LEAST 5-Year Depreciation
Joe Kucinski
Lexus LC500 Convertible Auction: A Preview of Rising Values?
Brett Foote
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35,489
Likes: 386
From: ON/NY
Th
That interior upgrade in 96 was huge, my Dad was really bummed when that came out right after he got his 95. You're right though, very nice leather and great wood, just overall not very well put together. Only mechanical issue we had was a failed AC Compressor, but it was a lease and was gone in 50k miles.
That interior upgrade in 96 was huge, my Dad was really bummed when that came out right after he got his 95. You're right though, very nice leather and great wood, just overall not very well put together. Only mechanical issue we had was a failed AC Compressor, but it was a lease and was gone in 50k miles.
Sad for Cadillac, their effort of the RWD STS was a solid effort and so was their XLT 2-door of the convertible....if they stuck to those designs they probably would have a better perception in consumers eyes today. But their pathetic reliability and quality will never be forgiven to those that experienced such horror.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; Dec 28, 2020 at 08:02 PM.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,284
Likes: 487
From: Long Island
it wasn't condescending you just completely removed all context and changed the meaning of what i said lol
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68,834
Likes: 4,107
From: Maryland
Not for my parents STS. It was pathetic out of warranty. Theirs had their rear truck fail so they had to tie it closed and it sat 1 inch up....and the transmission would not go to 40mph....and numerous problems. They saw our Toyota’s were lasting longer and then they finally got their first Toyota after that and NEVER looked back.
Same with him, he got the LS400 after that and never looked back.
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,521
Likes: 261
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Not so much the soft ride, but the way it keeps bouncing up and down, and the rate at which is bounces. There are studies on this, and optimal "natural frequencies" of suspension system to avoid motion sickness. The likes of Lexus and Mercedes considered this in their suspension designs, but US automakers at that time not so much. I am not an expert on this at all, but you might want to research it given your aviation past.
Also, give your aviation career, I assume you've done some "flying" on a flight simulator? Have you ever done flight simulation with VR goggles?
Also, give your aviation career, I assume you've done some "flying" on a flight simulator? Have you ever done flight simulation with VR goggles?
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,521
Likes: 261
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Like the 3Gen Camry, 4Gen Honda Accord, and 4Gen ES300/330, the 1Gen Avalon is a sedan that I could have afforded, and, looking back, almost wished I had bought. Toyota and Lexus simply don't produce vehicles like that any more....except for an always excellent paint job and drivetrain-durability today, the quality and solidness that went into those vehicles has been replaced, by much less-impressive materials today, thanks mostly to cost-cutting.