Yes, ultimately, that's true, but the term Third-World is also used to refer to countries that have a lot of poverty, and are backward in their infrastructure because they simply can't afford to deal with it.

 

Back somewhat on topic, here's a video of a safer and more successful run across the pass with off-road-capable Toyota Tacomas and FJ Cruisers.

Jill, you will probably like this.....the platform and drivetrain of the FJ Cruiser is the same as the 4Runner, just with a different, more retro-styled body/interior.

 

These are not roads. These are off-road trails, when using them people are taking on risks. That’s their choice, no further regulation is needed. People are seeking out this experience, it’s not a road they have to use to get from one place to another.

 

So you don't agree with Wilson2000's statement that we may need off-road-certification for those under conditions like Back Bear?

 

Often-used incorrectly... The proper term is underdeveloped or undeveloped...for example, China is an underdeveloped country.

Most people are responsible....an off-road certification is not really needed. People have been off-roading for a long long time. This was an accident that you truly could not see how it happened.

 

No, I don’t agree with your statement that the government needs to do something about the safety of the trails themselves as they do roadways.

But, accidents and deaths when off-roading aren’t common, so I don’t think it’s an issue that needs to really be addressed on a government level.

 

I agree with this statement. These aren't roads and should be traveled at one's own risk.

I don't know how common or uncommon accidents/deaths are for off-roading, but if one was to compare accidents per miles driven on-road vs off-road, my guess is that accidents/death rates are higher for off-road. Fatality numbers are low for off-roading because of the small numbers of participants in the sport vs those driving on-road. The guy who took the video and almost got hit by the falling Jeep, however, would probably side in favor of off-road training/licensing. As with all driving, one's actions can kill others, which is the best argument for a specialty off-road license.

 

That's not quite what I said. I said I agreed with Wilson's proposal, that off-roading licenses may sometimes be required...that's not redoing the roadway or trail itself. It is one thing to learn to drive on a well-paved road with little traffic.....quite another matter on the Rubicon or Black Bear trails.

Fine, that's your opinion. We will respect it. Please respect mine....and Wilson's.

 

When did I not?

Even when there is training and licensing, accidents happen. The person who was driving that Jeep may have been a very experienced offroader. The vast majority of people who invest in that kind of rig and tackle those kinds of trails are.

 

We can only speculate as to the reason the driver forgot to set the handbrake. Based on my experience off-roading, one does not go about any action without checking and rechecking the safety of each action. Was the driver impaired, distracted, sloppy or careless? We don't know. We only know that he screwed the pooch. Could training have prevented this or countless other off-roading accidents? Nothing is 100%, but training and licensing would likely prevent a number of them.

Having money to invest in an off-road rig does not necessarily equate with someone being a "very experienced offroader." It's not Wheel of Fortune...you can't buy a clue, and unfortunately some people with money are clueless!

 

My sentiments exactly !!

 

The girl who was critically injured, and her loved ones, would likely agree with the off-road licensing concept! The guy who filmed the event and almost got hit by the falling Jeep would also probably agree. Yes, off-roading is inherently risky. If one is only risking one's own life, that's one thing, but since one is risking other people's lives, that's another.

 

You're assuming a license would have made a difference, thats a big assumption. People make mistakes, even when they are licensed. Extremely well trained and credentialed pilots make mistakes. Surgeons make mistakes.

The woman who was hurt chose to participate in a risky activity and she was injured. That unfortunately happens.

 

I'm not making an assumption about this specific incidence. I'm making an assertion there would generally be fewer accidents if drivers had to train on off-roading safety and be tested and certified to show they're competent to participate in the sport.

 

There are very very few accidents such as this to begin with. People aren't participating in offroading at that level without experience.