I have not read GS owners wanting a LS500 or thinking it is a good replacement, I certainly don't, I think Lexus just totally screwed up the LS with the LS500.

 

I’m a GS guy, and I admittedly like the LS500, but I have no desire to buy one. I like the larger interior and the 3.4TT V6, but it isn’t nearly as nimble as the GS, and it’s just ginormous on the outside. It’s just not for me, regardless of price.

 

I don't agree with "LS is the new GS" either. The LS is not only almost twice as expensive, it's also substantially larger and heavier. Like, over a foot longer and 1000 pounds heavier. The GS was a very capable canyon carver, and while the new LS is more sporty in feel, its handling prowess is nowhere near a GS.

The closest rival to the LS 500 is the Jaguar X351 XJ, which also emphasized driving feel over boat-like luxury while being a capable limo. It also pulled off the same 4-door coupe look as the LS. However, the Jag's combination of luxury and driving feel was much less compromised than the LS, especially the XJL variant. Not only did it have more interior space (particularly for rear passengers), it was 1000 pounds lighter than the LS- the lightest vehicle in its class when it made its debut in 2010. Even today, despite being a decade old, it's handling prowess remains among the best in class. It also had far more performance options and V8 upgrades, none of which the LS has to emphasize its supposedly sporty character (other than the mostly cosmetic F-Sport trim).

That lack of performance emphasis is what prevents the new LS from being a true competitor to the Panamera or 8 Series Gran Coupe. It just feels like a surface level attempt rather than being fully committed to its new identity, and that is why the car alienated both former LS owners and did little to draw in Panamera/8GC buyers.

 

Agree, they are awful and look awful and are counter-intuitive, with the needles swinging different ways.

Sad, because BMW used to have very nice gauges before they went digital.

Nice writeup on all cars. I would pick the Mercedes.

 

It is always interesting to read about the comments on the LS500.. I think it looks spectacular and at first I never thought that way about it. I also thing it is the type of LS car that was built for the enthusiast in min and something to appeal to the Jay Leno's Garage and Harry's Garage type. It definitely has a design and style to it. I also thing this is the first LS to target those in the Maserati Ghibli or Porsche Panamera buyer group which would indicate a new clientele Lexus is after. It also appears to me that the new LS was built for world markets like China which is slower to move from sedans to crossovers. I also firmly do believe the LS has gone on its own way from its past where it was trying to be an alternative to a A8/S or 7 series.

As for size. Every new Japanese sedan Corolla, Camry, Avalon, Mazda3, AcuraTLX, is smaller than the previous generation...Lexus ES, Subaru Legacy, and Mazda6 stayed the exact same size....my opinion is that is has everything to do with crossovers which I think the new LQ Lexus will be just a smidge larger than the LS500 in the headroom department which is what most buyers want now anyways.

Just my opinion.

 

HUD solves that and BMW has a great HUD . i rarely look at the virtual display, the HUD is that good and huge.

 

There's an exception or two but the majority have grown in size. Don't know where you're getting you're info from

 

the shifter in a $160,000+ M760i feels like it'll fall off after several dozen uses... such cheap plastic throughout that entire interior

 

Look up Fuel Econony.gov It has the EPA interior cubic feet. That is what I was referring to

 

The problem with the LS500 is that no matter what you want for a car it's size, there are much better options. If you want some sporty, the Panamera is much better. If you want a refined luxury barge, the S Class is way better. If you want a mix of both, the 7 series is better. If you want something with prestige and to show off, there are many better options. If you just want bargain luxury, the G90 is better. It's a car that tries to please everyone but really pleases almost nobody. It doesn't attract new buyers, and all the compromises alienated the existing customer base. I'm not sure they could have gotten it more wrong. Nobody asked for a plus-sized GS.

I don't believe that is true. I thought cars like the Corolla, Camry, Avalon, ES had gotten bigger over the years.

 

I had the chance today to ride in a 2015 S8. All I can say is WOW. But for that kind of money, it should be wow.

 

There are some interesting observations here to note, not just from SW17LS but other posts: A MB that is seven model years old is still astonishingly good in terms of styling, interior and drive. A Bimmer that is five model years old still figures prominently for the same reasons. The sporty LS can fix its lack of buyers but it would require focus on where the LS sits in the luxe car segment.

The LS is a good car on its own merits. But the competition is a little bit better and in this category you have a limited pool of buyers who are going to be very nitpicky about things they like and don't like. Lexus designers and engineers should be worried. The W223 is almost here. And what happens when the next G series big Bimmer debuts in 2022?

 

The interiors are all a tiny bit smaller. 2-5 cubic foot decrease. For example, 2008 LS is 103 cubic feet, where the 2020 is 99.

 

It is my contention that the vast majority of GS buyers or midsized sports sedan buyers in general never take their car to carve canyons. For most of the daily driving, city and highway commute, the new LS500 and 4GS experience will be identical except safer in the stronger LS chassis.

Only issue will be parking with the longer LS body.

One thing to consider vis a vis the Panamera, XJ and Maserati Quatrroporte ie the "Sporty Flagship" segment cars is that the LS500 will probably be significantly more reliable.

With all that being said, if I were a Lexus GS fan, loves the midsize sports sedan form factor and want to stay in the Lexus family and its associated reliability and build quality, I would look closely at a lightly used LS500 F-Sport for a killer deal.

As an aside, since the LS is the Flagship of Lexus and probably represents Toyota's Flagship to the rest of the world, listening to Akio Toyota's address during Toyota's recent annual shareholder's meeting proved illuminating on Toyota's state of mind and philosophy regarding Lexus, their future cars and why the LS and current Lexus cars are the way they are. I admit I may have misjudged Akio Toyoda and I now suspect Toyota and Lexus have a very clear idea and direction for Lexus products going forward.

 

thanks for clarifying