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One thing everyone seems to have overlooked is that the current IS and current GS ride on essentially a bespoke platform, the RWD "New N" platform, which was developed just before GA-L platform came into being. Credit goes to Carmaker for pointing out this fact. This platform was developed for sedans with driving dynamics as the paramount factor. It achieved its objective as the GS and IS beat their direct German competition in driving engagement and handling, either in slalom times or figure 8 average speed comparisons or in subjective feel. Another curious feature is that 4GS and 3IS don't share the "New N" with any other cars in the Toyota or Lexus line up, both in North America or globally, except for the RC, which is based on the IS/GS. Not even the Japanese Toyota Crown, which traditionally shares platforms with the GS, ever used the New N platform.
It's my contention that the New N was a platform ahead of its time in terms of chassis dynamics and handling. And I'm willing to bet that ignoring engines and drivetrains, New N is still superior or competitive handling wise with the latest German midsize and compact RWD platforms from BMW/MB/Audi. Toyota basically decided to conduct an expensive experiment to see if they could beat BMW at the handling game and also see if that helped them gain market share in the luxury sports sedan segment. It failed. Despite GS/IS being better handling, Lexus still couldn't gain market share in that segment.
So it makes sense why Lexus still persists with the same platform for the IS and GS. It needs to recoup the R & D costs sunk into developing that platform and considering the 4GS and 3IS sold in low numbers, it needs more time for IS/GS to sell sufficient numbers to recoup the sunk costs.
So I guess I don't understand why some people seem to drink the KoolAid that newer automatically = better. IF Lexus introduces Carplay and Android Auto and updates the safety suite of the refreshed IS, who cares if it's the same platform? Most important is the driver and ownership experience, not the bragging rights of belonging to the "cool" automotive club. Like if you drive a BMW 330i, you still drive a slower car than an older tech Lexus IS350. It's not as if you can bask in the reflected glory of an M3 owner lol.
To me, a "new" car doesn't mean a brand new chassis. If a chassis is good, which the 4GS chassis was excellent, then updating the interior (maybe some body panels too) would make it feel like a "new" car. And of course MOAR POWAH. I gotta disagree on the 330i vs IS350 though... comparing new cars as a potential new buyer they're very close in straight line performance with the edge going to the 330i. Both are slow though
To me, a "new" car doesn't mean a brand new chassis. If a chassis is good, which the 4GS chassis was excellent, then updating the interior (maybe some body panels too) would make it feel like a "new" car. And of course MOAR POWAH. I gotta disagree on the 330i vs IS350 though... comparing new cars as a potential new buyer they're very close in straight line performance with the edge going to the 330i. Both are slow though
The chassis was great for handling but weighed noticeably more than the equivalent BMW. I think there is certainly room for improvement as 8/10ths driving was awesome but the 9 or 10/10ths driving had way too much understeer. Improving those aspects along with an option for more power was the only thing the IS needed. The overall design and quality are easily near the top and has aged really well. The new 3 series even copied the rear design of the IS I also think the base engine needs more power...why are German horses stronger than Japanese...the 2L at 240hp doesn't feel all that powerful.
egh. they sloped the rear door window panel up high like the acura ILX. yuck.
the shape of the door is the same, but they reshaped that small fixed glass. longer at the bottom, sloping up higher.
Touché. Maybe it's just for a visual trick.
Is it just me or is the "shoulder" area in the back different as well? If you look at the fuel door especially, it looks like they smoothed-out the character line.
Can't see all of the wheels but I kinda like them. As much as I enjoyed the LFA-inspired wheels from before, it seemed kinda cheap to simply continue re-using them.
It's just a window man. No different than a hairdo.
Ahem. See this quoted post.
Originally Posted by arentz07
Touché. Maybe it's just for a visual trick.
Is it just me or is the "shoulder" area in the back different as well? If you look at the fuel door especially, it looks like they smoothed-out the character line.
Can't see all of the wheels but I kinda like them. As much as I enjoyed the LFA-inspired wheels from before, it seemed kinda cheap to simply continue re-using them.
There's more going on. They wouldn't bother to change the window if there weren't other areas being updated. Think about all the stuff that is affected by a window - crash safety, visibility, the trim pieces that go around it, the interior... Not cheap to evaluate let alone implement.
egh. they sloped the rear door window panel up high like the acura ILX. yuck.
the shape of the door is the same, but they reshaped that small fixed glass. longer at the bottom, sloping up higher.
I swear that car looks fwd... and not very luxurious either. Kinda looks like a 'special' corolla in that pic. And pman6, yeah, i saw ILX too.
so yeah, i have to go there, why would anyone buy an IS over a tesla model 3? Similar price, tesla 3 is obviously leaps and bounds more advanced and WAY faster. Could say the same thing about a genesis g70 too (bargain).
That pic above with the hideous tacked on side skirt just looks like an epic fail.
I swear that car looks fwd... and not very luxurious either. Kinda looks like a 'special' corolla in that pic. And pman6, yeah, i saw ILX too.
so yeah, i have to go there, why would anyone buy an IS over a tesla model 3? Similar price, tesla 3 is obviously leaps and bounds more advanced and WAY faster. Could say the same thing about a genesis g70 too (bargain).
That pic above with the hideous tacked on side skirt just looks like an epic fail.
Agreed, I think the IS's biggest problems are the Model 3, recently-redesigned BMW 3-series, and of course the G70 which will probably be updated before too much longer as well - with the new 3.5-liter V6 twin turbo as well (not confirmed, but very likely). The rumored IS 500 would be a niche/enthusiast sell at best.
Agreed, I think the IS's biggest problems are the Model 3, recently-redesigned BMW 3-series, and of course the G70 which will probably be updated before too much longer as well - with the new 3.5-liter V6 twin turbo as well (not confirmed, but very likely). The rumored IS 500 would be a niche/enthusiast sell at best.
Don't forget the new TLX, though admittedly that has moved up a segment to where the GS formerly was. Doesn't mean the two won't be cross-shopped.
I swear that car looks fwd... and not very luxurious either. Kinda looks like a 'special' corolla in that pic. And pman6, yeah, i saw ILX too.
so yeah, i have to go there, why would anyone buy an IS over a tesla model 3? Similar price, tesla 3 is obviously leaps and bounds more advanced and WAY faster. Could say the same thing about a genesis g70 too (bargain).
That pic above with the hideous tacked on side skirt just looks like an epic fail.
That is a really easy question to answer... price, dealerships, and gas vs. electric.
Price - Correct me if I'm wrong, but the model 3 definitely costs more. The MSRP is close (unless you get the $7,000 self drive option then the model 3 is by far more expensive), but you can buy a Lexus IS/ES or BMW 3 significantly below MSRP. As far as I know you order a model 3 online and pay MSRP, right? Making it a lot more money. Never bought a Tesla, though, not sure if you can negotiate that price or not.
Dealerships - I like to be able to take the car to a dealership with a problem. Last I read, Tesla is still expanding their repair capabilities and it is not timely depending on where you live. I live in an area where it definitely would not be timely.
Gas/Electric - Charging an electric vehicle is no easy feat. Can't just plug in 120V and charge overnight like a phone. The cost of an addition 240V outlet is not figured into the price of the car. Or a 400V outlet if your power supports it and you want supercharge capability. On top of that, again depending on area, you don't save any money over gasoline. Electric rates in CA are stupid high. I would pay equivalent prices in electric costs as I would just filling my tank with gas. Plus, the summers here are brutal, which affect battery range and electric rates go up, so I could end up paying more. Then there is the problem with charging while traveling... a problem that is getting better, but still isn't close to the availability and speed of gasoline refills.
I don't think many of those problems will still be problems in 5-10 years, especially with many major manufactures going electric. I love the sound of a gasoline car, but I think I'd love being slammed in the seat of an electric rocket just as much
That is a really easy question to answer... price, dealerships, and gas vs. electric.
Price - Correct me if I'm wrong, but the model 3 definitely costs more. The MSRP is close (unless you get the $7,000 self drive option then the model 3 is by far more expensive), but you can buy a Lexus IS/ES or BMW 3 significantly below MSRP. As far as I know you order a model 3 online and pay MSRP, right? Making it a lot more money. Never bought a Tesla, though, not sure if you can negotiate that price or not.
Dealerships - I like to be able to take the car to a dealership with a problem. Last I read, Tesla is still expanding their repair capabilities and it is not timely depending on where you live. I live in an area where it definitely would not be timely.
Gas/Electric - Charging an electric vehicle is no easy feat. Can't just plug in 120V and charge overnight like a phone. The cost of an addition 240V outlet is not figured into the price of the car. Or a 400V outlet if your power supports it and you want supercharge capability. On top of that, again depending on area, you don't save any money over gasoline. Electric rates in CA are stupid high. I would pay equivalent prices in electric costs as I would just filling my tank with gas. Plus, the summers here are brutal, which affect battery range and electric rates go up, so I could end up paying more. Then there is the problem with charging while traveling... a problem that is getting better, but still isn't close to the availability and speed of gasoline refills.
I don't think many of those problems will still be problems in 5-10 years, especially with many major manufactures going electric. I love the sound of a gasoline car, but I think I'd love being slammed in the seat of an electric rocket just as much
The cheapest Model 3 is $35k but you have to go to a dealer to order (not through website). The standard range RWD is ~$38k and the AWD is $47k. The RWD does 0-60 in the 5 second range and the AWD does it in the low 4s range so for the same priced car, its much faster than the IS or 330. Service in California is really good because there are a ton of service centers. I hear not so good in other states especially the midwest. The east coast is pretty good too. You can't add 400V to a house...most just outfit a 240V for about $500 install. This will charge your car overnight as you get about 30 miles of range every hour. You can opt for the wall connector from Tesla that charges at 44 miles an hour if you need it but with 300 miles of range, not really needed. You can Supercharge but thats only for people that are doing long-distance. Most people just plug in overnight as they don't typically drive more than 250 miles in a day (you won't really get 300 miles...more like 200-250 miles). A Supercharger will typically take 20-30 minutes for a charge up to 80%. You don't go above that for many reasons.
In California, you pay 11 cents per kWH which equates to about $8 per complete fill up of the car. Premium gas for the IS350 on a 17 gallon tank would be $65. Its about ~6-8x cheaper to fill up an EV in California. Summer doesn't affect range that much...you lose maybe 10% with a lot of AC. There is also almost no maintenance for the Teslas. Just brake fluid when needed which could be anywhere from 2-4 years depending on the environment. The brakes need servicing after 100k or more miles.
The new rav4 prime will go 0-60 in 5.8 seconds. It is a plug in hybrid.
tesla model 3 performance is 55k without self driving package giving AWD + 0-60 in 3.2s.
with the gs range axed, the IS should be propped up with performance hybrid especially with the latest toyota battery technology.
But for some or for most people, we cant afford to have a full electric car due to infrastructure. (I live in NYC without a private garage like many millions of new yorkers).
I would love to see a new IS-F with performant hybrid getting 0-60 in less than 4.0 seconds. Mating 2 electric motors upfront for e-AWD while keeping RWD bias. oh and more rear legroom while keeping the overall dimensions of the car compact(perhaps less than 188 inches in length).
A modern, futuristic IS-F with a futuristic interior(think like prius/tesla) with lexus touch of luxury would be great.
TLDR:
Would a modern/futuristic IS-F with performance hybrid terrain sub 4 second 0-60, more rear legroom(1-2 inches) and futuristic interior(tesla/prius??) too much to ask for?
06-12-20, 08:05 AM
