tex2670
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My son's road test was a 3-mile loop and a parallel park--yes, it's kind of a joke. PA requires 60 hours of road instruction. Could he have passed with less? Absolutely? A lot less? Yes. Little to none? No. We all forget how much of driving becomes second nature and intuitive. I truly hope few, if any, parents are signing the form without actual road instruction. Originally Posted by SW17LS
I saw that. Truly the road test in MD is so worthless I don't think it matters. When I got my license 24 years ago all it was was parallel parking, a 3 point turn, and backing up 100 feet. On a closed course. Today I don't think they even do the parallel parking. They require a private driving school give you so many hours of road instruction and sign off, I don't see how seeing you do those 3 things makes you much safer on the road.
tex2670
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Trust me--having been thru the driving instruction thing this past year, it's not "common sense" to someone with no road experience. It becomes common sense and second nature thru real world experience. For example--stopping distance, particularly in bad weather. A brand new driver doesn't know from "common sense" how early (or late) to begin slowing down for a red light. I constantly had to coach my son about things that I find second nature.Originally Posted by mmarshall
From what I've seen, most of driving safety is simple common sense....something that cannot always be taught in a classroom, although, back in my day, I found the old Signal-30 film, which was made before cars had many of the safety devices they do today, to be quite a deterrent (wish some of my schoolmates could have said the same). I've stated before, and still feel, that one requirement for a license would be for teens to spend at least one evening, preferably on Friday or Saturday night, when most DWI accidents happen, at the Emergency room of a local hospital (Assuming there is a hospital in reasonable distance). There is probably no substitute for seeing the effects of alcohol, excessive speed, and stupidity first-hand.
SW17LS
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I can't imagine as a parent signing such a form allowing my child to have a drivers license if I weren't confident he knew enough to drive. I sure hope other parents are as serious about it. When I took my road instruction the instructor actually signed off on my paperwork because I was already such a good driver. Thought that was cool when I was 15, now that I'm 39 its not so cool lol. To be fair, I was already a very good driver. Originally Posted by tex2670
My son's road test was a 3-mile loop and a parallel park--yes, it's kind of a joke. PA requires 60 hours of road instruction. Could he have passed with less? Absolutely? A lot less? Yes. Little to none? No. We all forget how much of driving becomes second nature and intuitive. I truly hope few, if any, parents are signing the form without actual road instruction.
When I got my license my dad made me take an advanced defensive driving course that wasn't required by the state. It was two full days of instruction on a road course with skid cars and in your own car and also classroom time, he and I took it together. It was fun, and I really learned a lot there. It made me want to take more classes and training and become a better driver, which I've done.
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If I'm not mistaken, BMW used to offer a course like that, at little or no charge, for their new M customers. Originally Posted by SW17LS
When I got my license my dad made me take an advanced defensive driving course that wasn't required by the state. It was two full days of instruction on a road course with skid cars and in your own car and also classroom time, he and I took it together. It was fun, and I really learned a lot there. It made me want to take more classes and training and become a better driver, which I've done.
SW17LS
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Those courses aren't designed for new drivers, this one was specifically designed for new drivers.
Here's a good article from C&D about the sort of training I took:
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...nsive-driving/
It was part classroom, part skid car training, and part in my own car.
Here's a good article from C&D about the sort of training I took:
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...nsive-driving/
It was part classroom, part skid car training, and part in my own car.
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As a libertarian, I don't see the problem with putting more responsibility on the shoulders of the parents.
Who has more to lose if the young driver wrecks their car? Parent or state?
Who cares more if the child is injured or killed in a wreck? Parent or state?
Who knows the competency of the new driver better? The parent who has been ridding shotgun the last few months, or the trooper who rides for 3 minutes and looks at a few answers on a written test?
I understand the concern, but if you step back from "the box" and look at it with some common sense, I would suggest this is actually a change for the better.
Who has more to lose if the young driver wrecks their car? Parent or state?
Who cares more if the child is injured or killed in a wreck? Parent or state?
Who knows the competency of the new driver better? The parent who has been ridding shotgun the last few months, or the trooper who rides for 3 minutes and looks at a few answers on a written test?
I understand the concern, but if you step back from "the box" and look at it with some common sense, I would suggest this is actually a change for the better.
tex2670
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The innocent bystander, other driver or passenger who may be injured in the wreck? Originally Posted by jhbarbwire
Who has more to lose if the young driver wrecks their car?

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Yes, I could have added that to the list:Originally Posted by tex2670
The innocent bystander, other driver or passenger who may be injured in the wreck?
Who has more to lose if the child injures another person in a wreck? Parent or state?
(increased insurance premiums, potential litigation, etc.)
Plus, what parent wants that lifelong guilt for their son or daughter?
And if the parent is the one who approved the child's competence as a driver, he would share in that guilt of causing damage to another person.
SW17LS
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Sadly, the answer is it depends on the parent.
tex2670
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Who has more to lose if the child injures another person in a wreck? Parent or state?
(increased insurance premiums, potential litigation, etc.)
Plus, what parent wants that lifelong guilt for their son or daughter?
And if the parent is the one who approved the child's competence as a driver, he would share in that guilt of causing damage to another person.
This:Originally Posted by jhbarbwire
Yes, I could have added that to the list:Who has more to lose if the child injures another person in a wreck? Parent or state?
(increased insurance premiums, potential litigation, etc.)
Plus, what parent wants that lifelong guilt for their son or daughter?
And if the parent is the one who approved the child's competence as a driver, he would share in that guilt of causing damage to another person.
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And it's all great for you to focus on the parent/child transaction. Go ahead and explain it to the family of the person injured. They had NOTHING to do with the "determination" of who had most to lose. Originally Posted by SW17LS
Sadly, the answer is it depends on the parent.
SW17LS
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And it's all great for you to focus on the parent/child transaction. Go ahead and explain it to the family of the person injured. They had NOTHING to do with the "determination" of who had most to lose.
Totally agreedOriginally Posted by tex2670
This:And it's all great for you to focus on the parent/child transaction. Go ahead and explain it to the family of the person injured. They had NOTHING to do with the "determination" of who had most to lose.
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Very fair point.Originally Posted by SW17LS
Sadly, the answer is it depends on the parent.
But most decent folk will rise to whatever level of responsibility is being expected of them, so we may be underestimating people since the current system takes the burden of responsibility off their shoulders.
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What is your point here? Are you saying the family of the injured person will suddenly not care about the injury, or somehow have less to lose, if they learn that the driver at fault had a 5 minute test drive with a Trooper before receiving their license?Originally Posted by tex2670
And it's all great for you to focus on the parent/child transaction. Go ahead and explain it to the family of the person injured. They had NOTHING to do with the "determination" of who had most to lose.
The objective is to prevent wrecks by not allowing new solo drivers on the road until they are sufficiently practiced and educated.
My argument is that parents are the in the best position to make that call.
Then there will not be a wreck for other people to be injured in.
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Who has more to lose if the young driver wrecks their car? Parent or state?
Who cares more if the child is injured or killed in a wreck? Parent or state?
Who knows the competency of the new driver better? The parent who has been ridding shotgun the last few months, or the trooper who rides for 3 minutes and looks at a few answers on a written test?
I understand the concern, but if you step back from "the box" and look at it with some common sense, I would suggest this is actually a change for the better.
Parents haven't taken responsibility for their children for about twenty years. They are having children when they are totally dysfunctional, absent, selfish, insecure, drunk, and irresponsible. We can no longer rely on parents to do the job needed to love, teach, and lead by example, let alone teach kids responsible driving. That is a fantasy in all major cities. Originally Posted by jhbarbwire
As a libertarian, I don't see the problem with putting more responsibility on the shoulders of the parents.Who has more to lose if the young driver wrecks their car? Parent or state?
Who cares more if the child is injured or killed in a wreck? Parent or state?
Who knows the competency of the new driver better? The parent who has been ridding shotgun the last few months, or the trooper who rides for 3 minutes and looks at a few answers on a written test?
I understand the concern, but if you step back from "the box" and look at it with some common sense, I would suggest this is actually a change for the better.
Driver
How long will it take before lawyers are involved and lawsuits brought against the State and/or the Parents when the untested young adult gets in an accident? Agree with others, why not just delay issuing the license for a month or two?
TriC
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I don't know how it works in other states, but here in Ohio the licensing process has changed markedly over the past 50 years. When I went through it in 1971 we took in-class driver's education as a regular class in 10th grade for one semester. That was followed by in-car instruction, also by the school. Cars were furnished as a courtesy by local dealers. 4 kids would be in a car with the instructor. Drive time was minimal - just 24 hours in the car with 8 behind the wheel IIRC. This was certainly inadequate for me as I totaled the family car just 7 days after getting my license (less than 2 months after getting temps)!
30 years later there was no longer any school instruction. All in-class was commercial with 50 hours behind the wheel required including 10 at night. Hours behind the wheel were logged with a parent. Remarkably, the age for getting a temps was lowered from 16 to 15 and a half. However, my children did not get their temps until turning 16 and their full licenses until 17. It worked fairly well as neither had a serious accident although each had a minor mishap. Of course, the huge differences between now and 1971 are traffic volume and automotive safety equipment.
Last point - if a driver is underage, parental consent is already required for full licensing, so what Georgia is doing is eliminating the final step of a driving test.
30 years later there was no longer any school instruction. All in-class was commercial with 50 hours behind the wheel required including 10 at night. Hours behind the wheel were logged with a parent. Remarkably, the age for getting a temps was lowered from 16 to 15 and a half. However, my children did not get their temps until turning 16 and their full licenses until 17. It worked fairly well as neither had a serious accident although each had a minor mishap. Of course, the huge differences between now and 1971 are traffic volume and automotive safety equipment.
Last point - if a driver is underage, parental consent is already required for full licensing, so what Georgia is doing is eliminating the final step of a driving test.










