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Lincoln's system was arguably even worse. There was no rhyme or reason at all to the system of MKX, MKZ, MKT, etc.....
At least, with Cadillac, there was some order to it, if not much. The "X" meant an SUV, the "C" a mid or large size sedan or coupe....and the ATS, a compact coupe or sedan.
I strongly disagree. Look how well most of today's retro-named models are doing....Charger, Challenger, 300, Mustang, Camaro, ...they are continuing to sell, each day, as we speak. This idea that you can't sell retro names anymore because the Baby Boomers are aging is nonsense. Like it or not, many of them, despite age, still have money...ad it will still be a while before they hang up their keys.
Not apples to apples. Charger, Challenger, Mustang, and Camaro are all words that either mean speed, competition, or still sound modern. "Coupe De Ville, Fleetwood, Brougham, and Seville," are passe words that do not say or match up with modern or futuristic designs- the direction Cadillac needs to go in order to compete and survive (and a direction they are now claiming they want to go). A new page needs to be turned, and retro will not carry the company, as we've already seen for the last twenty years.
You've been saying "there are still seniors and baby boomers who are interested...," but they are rapidly dying off. Cannot put eggs in a basket with holes in it, that is a slow train wreck. It's been tried recently and has failed. ***Must look into the future and be competitive with BMW, MBZ, Tesla, and Lexus to survive.
I strongly disagree. Look how well most of today's retro-named models are doing....Charger, Challenger, 300, Mustang, Camaro, ...they are continuing to sell, each day, as we speak. This idea that you can't sell retro names anymore because the Baby Boomers are aging is nonsense. Like it or not, many of them, despite age, still have money...ad it will still be a while before they hang up their keys.
I have to agree with @Fizzboy7 here. You are a strong advocate of Chevy's use, or misuse, of the "Blazer" name. Same with the upcoming Ford Bronco. Which means that you feel that there is more than just the old name itself. There's image and intangibles.
If a resurrected name is more than just a name, it's an image and has cache, then what image do old Cadillac names project? Certainly not prestige and luxury for today's market standards. There can't be too many potential customers to steal away from European lux sedans that would be excited for a resurrection of the name "Fleetwood," "DeVille," "Eldorado" or "Cimmaron".
I have to agree with @Fizzboy7 here. You are a strong advocate of Chevy's use, or misuse, of the "Blazer" name. Same with the upcoming Ford Bronco. Which means that you feel that there is more than just the old name itself. There's image and intangibles.
Yes, there's truth on both sides.....I never said anything different. IMO ,the Blazer was simply the wrong name to give to what Chevy is calling a Blazer today. It's perfectly fine as as a redone, sport-oriented Equinox or Traverse, but not as a Blazer....which is probably why it is not selling as well as Chevy intended. The Bronco, fortunately, does not appear to be following in those footsteps....except for the four doors, it will be more worthy of the retro nameplate (we'll have to wait and see if there will be a classic two-door version).
My point was (and is)...if you do the retro name, then do the retro characteristics.......with the updated safety-gear/equipment required nowadays, of course. Probably no other vehicles, today, have gotten that concept down better than the Mustang and Challenger.....which is why both of them keep selling hand over fist.
If a resurrected name is more than just a name, it's an image and has cache, then what image do old Cadillac names project? Certainly not prestige and luxury for today's market standards. There can't be too many potential customers to steal away from European lux sedans that would be excited for a resurrection of the name "Fleetwood," "DeVille," "Eldorado" or "Cimmaron".
In some ways, it also goes beyond simple names. As I have said before, both Cadillac and the European competitors need to work on better reliability. Both IMO, cause their owners too many (potential) problems for vehicles costing what they do.
Cimarron, BTW, would probably not be a good retro name to bring back. It was a sales-disaster from Day One. Although I myself generally liked the looks of the car (most people and reviewers didn't)....even I couldn't take its woefully-underpowered 88 HP N/A four, with a carburetor that ran so lean that it would barely feed gas at all. I remember, on my test-drive, I could have walked back to the dealership faster. So, no, the Cimarron name probably wouldn't work. Neither would the Catera, which ran a little better than the Cimarron did, but was (apparently) assembled by drunks that GM must have hired right off the streets.
Last edited by mmarshall; Dec 13, 2019 at 02:47 PM.
You've been saying "there are still seniors and baby boomers who are interested...,"
That's not me talking .....that's a fact. Baby Boomers, today, are mostly (or at least averaging) in their 60s....with the average life-expectancy, in my area (Fairfax County, VA) well over 80 for both males and females. Like it or not, they aren't going anywhere any time soon. On average, they will be around (and driving) for probably another 20 years.
but they are rapidly dying off. Cannot put eggs in a basket with holes in it,
No, not my age group. The ones that are rapidly dying off are what is left of the WWII generation. Most of them HAVE died off, and the ones that haven't are now between 90-100. Almost all of them have probably quit driving, even if they are still alive. But they aren't the ones I was talking about....they are no longer a factor in vehicle design.
During their working years boomers have preferred different vehicles and brands than the generation before them. Just look at the shifts in sales. As they age, they're not going to start craving a Caddy etc. Their preferences will be vehicles and brands they are familiar with. SUV's, CUV's etc.
During their working years boomers have preferred different vehicles and brands than the generation before them. Just look at the shifts in sales. As they age, they're not going to start craving a Caddy etc.
Well, would you want one of today's Caddys? That was why I've said, several times, that they, like the Europeans, need to work on improving reliability. M-B and BMW sell more on perception than on actual reliability.....and, unlike Cadillac, they only warranty their drivetrains 4/50. Cadillac (and Buick) at least give you 6/70.
Lincoln paved the way. A combination of actual names and immensely better cars is what has turned them around. Cadillac at least is on the right track, though I have no idea what names they are thinking of though. But I'm happy to hear they will drop the crappy CT XT names. Now if they would only get smart about reinstating V-Sport vs V. I wish Infiniti would follow suit with their legacy moniker letters.
Lincoln paved the way. A combination of actual names and immensely better cars is what has turned them around. Cadillac at least is on the right track, though I have no idea what names they are thinking of though. But I'm happy to hear they will drop the crappy CT XT names. Now if they would only get smart about reinstating V-Sport vs V. I wish Infiniti would follow suit with their legacy moniker letters.
I think part of the problem with the Cadillac full-V line is that there just isn't much of a market (or potential market) for it. Cadillac has done some full-V products for its sedan lineup, but they have not sold well.
I think part of the problem with the Cadillac full-V line is that there just isn't much of a market (or potential market) for it. Cadillac has done some full-V products for its sedan lineup, but they have not sold well.
They aren't supposed to sell in droves. But they are supposed to represent the pinnacle of the models that do offer V. There is a huge market. Look at M, AMG, RS and to a lesser degree Jaguar R, Lexus F etc.. The problem is the new 'V's' aren't really V's and GM neutered their 16 years in the making performance marque. Now they don't really compete, just rolled over. All this could have been avoided had they just called it V-Sport. The ATS-V and CTS-V are the last true V's that could hold a candle to M and AMG. They are simply trying to ***** out the V name for profit with watered down versions called the CT4-V and CT5-V with mild performance. But they will fail and all that hard work to gain respect from their peers will be for not.
The real question and steering back to Cadillac using real names is what will they be. Will they try to use some hip modern names or bring back some historic Cadillac names?
The real question and steering back to Cadillac using real names is what will they be. Will they try to use some hip modern names or bring back some historic Cadillac names?
Cadillac was making terrible cars that nobody wanted, and the management decided that to fix that they need to come up with a naming soup, and then again and again. Now they are at a point that nobody knows or cares what they even sell, besides the Escalade.
Cadillac was making terrible cars that nobody wanted, and the management decided that to fix that they need to come up with a naming soup, and then again and again. Now they are at a point that nobody knows or cares what they even sell, besides the Escalade.
Reliability is the least of their problems. People buy MB and BMW and Jags and they have poor rankings for reliability It’s all about prestige in America.
MB and BMW have poor ranking in reliability? Where....?
They are doing better than the industry average and many auto brands you'd expect to be up top in 2019
You should check your facts before you post tbh.
Last edited by premier3IS; Dec 16, 2019 at 10:09 AM.
Any of the regular CL members could have done 100% better job running Cadillac. Their management is clueless and I predicted CT6 failure the day that the model name was announced.
It feels they are intentionally sabotaging the brand.
I don't remember the last time anyone has said " I want the *insert model* Cadillac. US sales declining, boring interiors, boring exteriors and tons of better options for the same pricing.
Which led me to search for the US sales over the years. For anyone wondering, here is the NA sales chart from 2000-2018. Just as I expected, peak of sales around 2003-2007 (when the Escalade was extremely popular).
Could care less if Cadillac exits the US, good riddance lol.
That was why I've said, several times, that they, like the Europeans, need to work on improving reliability. M-B and BMW sell more on perception than on actual reliability.....and, unlike Cadillac, they only warranty their drivetrains 4/50. Cadillac (and Buick) at least give you 6/70.
