What’s Going on at BMW? Many Future/Current Cars Are Being Axed
07-31-19, 11:56 AM
#31
Super Moderator
Not when there's only one source for parts and it takes 3-4 months to get them. I can repair an issue with a Lexus/BMW/Audi between lunch and dinner TODAY.
07-31-19, 12:09 PM
#32
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by geko29
Not when there's only one source for parts and it takes 3-4 months to get them. I can repair an issue with a Lexus/BMW/Audi between lunch and dinner TODAY.
They are also getting much better about body parts. Only takes a couple weeks mostly.
07-31-19, 12:54 PM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
key part:
lol at comments above about tesla killing them, too many models, etc.
i believe the problem with 1, 2, 3 series is that they're just not that special anymore and can't command high prices. the 6 and 8 series are just bloated heavy coupes that few people want.
i do agree that tesla has had a negative impact on bmw, but i believe most of bmw's problems are of their own making... they felt they have to increase volume to remain viable by sharing parts and platforms across products to keep costs down, but if the end result products themselves, especially the low end which is very price-sensitive, isn't that great, then the volume goal won't be met. why get a 1 series when you can get a vw golf that's probably better? why get a 2 or 3 series when you can get a genesis g70 or lexus is that are probably better? then as we all know, the market globally has shifted from sedans and coupes to suvs. bmw does a lot better here, with generally very well regarded products. but the utes, then 'gran coupes' and 'coupes' is just a ludicrously over-stuffed product line. one thing no one can say about lexus is they have too many models.
but that's also because toyota carries the volume load, which has been the problem for luxury only brands like mb and bmw. audi has vw.
i guess that's why bmw got rid of their ceo, and now they no doubt have a 'hatchet' person in charge.
Like Audi and Mercedes, BMW is struggling to make money on cars that retail at less than €40,000, and roughly the same amount in U.S. currency. The rear-wheel-drive 1 Series, the 2 Series, and lower-trim 3 Series variants contribute very little if anything at all to the bottom line, and the company has established a list of doomed models. In addition to the three-door 1 Series, 2 Series Gran Tourer, and 3 Series GT, tombstones are being chiseled for the 2 Series convertible, standard-wheelbase 7 Series, Z4 replacement (sorry, Toyota), and both two-door 8 Series variants. If it wasn’t Reithofer’s personal darling, the 6 Series GT would also be head straight to the slaughterhouse in 2024. The 8 Series Gran Coupe will likely survive alongside the long-wheelbase 7 Series. While the X2 is also said to live on borrowed time, BMW has finally signed off the brand-new X8 which is mercifully not just a coupe version of the gargantuan X7. Instead, the board gave a green light to an emphatically sporty crossover which will be exclusively offered in M Performance and X8 M forms, and also sport a brawny M Power plug-in-hybrid powertrain that incorporates a 168-hp, 184-lb-ft electric motor and 60-kWh battery pack for zero-emissions driving range of up to 60 miles.
i believe the problem with 1, 2, 3 series is that they're just not that special anymore and can't command high prices. the 6 and 8 series are just bloated heavy coupes that few people want.
i do agree that tesla has had a negative impact on bmw, but i believe most of bmw's problems are of their own making... they felt they have to increase volume to remain viable by sharing parts and platforms across products to keep costs down, but if the end result products themselves, especially the low end which is very price-sensitive, isn't that great, then the volume goal won't be met. why get a 1 series when you can get a vw golf that's probably better? why get a 2 or 3 series when you can get a genesis g70 or lexus is that are probably better? then as we all know, the market globally has shifted from sedans and coupes to suvs. bmw does a lot better here, with generally very well regarded products. but the utes, then 'gran coupes' and 'coupes' is just a ludicrously over-stuffed product line. one thing no one can say about lexus is they have too many models.
but that's also because toyota carries the volume load, which has been the problem for luxury only brands like mb and bmw. audi has vw.i guess that's why bmw got rid of their ceo, and now they no doubt have a 'hatchet' person in charge.
07-31-19, 01:56 PM
#34
Super Moderator
As a longtime BMW fan, I have to unfortunately agree with almost all of this. However, I will submit that the 2-series is still special, and is the modern interpretation of the sporty E30/E36/E46 3-series. The M240i and M2 are still drivers' cars, first and foremost. Even if the 3- and 4-series no longer are.
07-31-19, 05:39 PM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
^^^ i agree m240i and m2 are special cars! and i just saw this 2020 m2 spy shot... looks good!
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/03/13/...cs-spy-photos/
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/03/13/...cs-spy-photos/
07-31-19, 07:13 PM
#36
Lexus Champion
Plain as day... the $40-95k market segment BMW is going after is losing out to Tesla. It offers a different driving experience and being 'ultimate' isnt a prerequisite.
Looks like BMW owners who are like to buy new and trade in after the maintenance is up, is getting fed up with the fees to keep the car running every 10k miles. It leaves anyone over 36k miles at risk for burning a nice hole in their wallet.
Tesla is more likely to be a car experience lasting 200k+ miles, getting your $$ worth and no premium fuel angst. Tech luxury has arrived and the Europeans have fallen flat.
BMW has no choice to thin the herd of too many auto choices. I wonder how they will do it with a new sales challenge of selling more with a fewer line up of cars. Staying profitable is a tough task and even Toyota has to be cautious to keep their line ups relevant.
Combine it with the Kia Stinger & Genesis G70, it is clear some exciting alternatives have emerged. When BMW figures out how to keep buyers loyal like Lexus owners, they'll stick around for the long haul. It's a harder task to get someone to come back to the brand after a bad experience (cost/maintenance/reliability).
Looks like BMW owners who are like to buy new and trade in after the maintenance is up, is getting fed up with the fees to keep the car running every 10k miles. It leaves anyone over 36k miles at risk for burning a nice hole in their wallet.
Tesla is more likely to be a car experience lasting 200k+ miles, getting your $$ worth and no premium fuel angst. Tech luxury has arrived and the Europeans have fallen flat.
BMW has no choice to thin the herd of too many auto choices. I wonder how they will do it with a new sales challenge of selling more with a fewer line up of cars. Staying profitable is a tough task and even Toyota has to be cautious to keep their line ups relevant.
Combine it with the Kia Stinger & Genesis G70, it is clear some exciting alternatives have emerged. When BMW figures out how to keep buyers loyal like Lexus owners, they'll stick around for the long haul. It's a harder task to get someone to come back to the brand after a bad experience (cost/maintenance/reliability).
07-31-19, 07:48 PM
#37
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
07-31-19, 08:24 PM
#39
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
that article is interesting, it says they did a FULL CHARGE EVERY DAY (which is abnormal), and driving it 17,000mi. a month and after 200K the battery had only degraded 6%.
07-31-19, 08:31 PM
#40
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
that article is interesting, it says they did a FULL CHARGE EVERY DAY (which is abnormal), and driving it 17,000mi. a month and after 200K the battery had only degraded 6%.
Check out this video:
Really interesting.
08-01-19, 08:55 AM
#41
Lead Lap
In the spec of a lease, long term reliability aka a vehicle last 100K+ is a non issue. Typically unless you have a valid reason to be leasing past warranty, folks care about the short term.
The issues most folks are probably going to face in BMW and Tesla Land are probably simple things like touchscreen/infotainment failure etc.
https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/...-grade-matters
And even thats besides the point, as terrible cars from BMW have not made them a do not lease vehicle (anyone who leased anything with a N63 motor).
The issues most folks are probably going to face in BMW and Tesla Land are probably simple things like touchscreen/infotainment failure etc.
https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/...-grade-matters
And even thats besides the point, as terrible cars from BMW have not made them a do not lease vehicle (anyone who leased anything with a N63 motor).
08-01-19, 09:27 AM
#42
Lexus Test Driver
In the spec of a lease, long term reliability aka a vehicle last 100K+ is a non issue. Typically unless you have a valid reason to be leasing past warranty, folks care about the short term.
The issues most folks are probably going to face in BMW and Tesla Land are probably simple things like touchscreen/infotainment failure etc.
https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/...-grade-matters
And even thats besides the point, as terrible cars from BMW have not made them a do not lease vehicle (anyone who leased anything with a N63 motor).
The issues most folks are probably going to face in BMW and Tesla Land are probably simple things like touchscreen/infotainment failure etc.
https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/...-grade-matters
And even thats besides the point, as terrible cars from BMW have not made them a do not lease vehicle (anyone who leased anything with a N63 motor).
08-01-19, 09:52 AM
#43
Within the next 5 years (2020-2025), I expect the way service is done for Tesla vehicles (now that it has over 1 million on the road) will be disruptive to the auto industry. The logistics of working with a network of smart cars is an unique problem. Tesla can develop the capability to have 'service' come to you or even set up mobile service stations to service a 'cluster' of cars within the area. It makes the rest of the auto industry vehicles look dumb as a rock and extremely reliant on it's owners to follow a 10/15/30/45/60/90/120 maintenance schedule to keep the money flowing to the dealers/franchises after initial sale.
It forces Tesla's hand to do things very differently (what kind of servicing, it's service schedule, infrastructure) and it's buyers are willing to be patient. Buying European means the parts are unique and not cheap either. Tesla has growing pains and the original players don't like the competition and fret with the loss of sales in their neighborhood. BMW issues are not unique. Audi and Mercedes are going through a self-evaluation of its own. What's the future going to look like? How do we stay in business and be profitable. Easy to answer if you are 'comfy' in your own turf and niche. Not so easy if you're losing out and buyers are not coming back (which means you're 3-4 years behind the curve to fix/address it).
08-01-19, 10:10 AM
#44
Within the next 5 years (2020-2025), I expect the way service is done for Tesla vehicles (now that it has over 1 million on the road) will be disruptive to the auto industry. The logistics of working with a network of smart cars is an unique problem. Tesla can develop the capability to have 'service' come to you or even set up mobile service stations to service a 'cluster' of cars within the area. It makes the rest of the auto industry vehicles look dumb as a rock and extremely reliant on it's owners to follow a 10/15/30/45/60/90/120 maintenance schedule to keep the money flowing to the dealers/franchises after initial sale.
This is an interesting thought. I look forward to this type of disruption. I don't think anybody has every said, "Oh I can't wait to bring my car into service".
08-01-19, 10:37 AM
#45
Those service intervals are BS anyway. No car needs major service at 10-20K , it's just how dealers can scam people out of $500+ dollars. Even after that, you can get things that are needed ala carte. Why pay the service department to "Inspect" the car. That's basically all their doing during those service intervals.