Toys4RJill

I disagree somewhat. Toyota certainly makes it quite difficult to get cargo space or AWD unless you go RAV4. Example, the new Toyota Corolla hatch is available with awd in certain markets and it is also available with a full size hatch size in some markets. Hybrid too...Just not for North America. Then you have the CH-R which is also available in certain markets with awd, just not offered in the biggest Toyota market in the world.

As for the new Camry being lowered, that is not the case for forcing people into a RAV4, there is simply no awd offered. No wagon either.

SW17LS

You guys talk as if AWD in a mainstream family sedan is commonplace, and Toyota is somehow not offering AWD to drive people to the Rav4, its not. The top sellers in the segment all are FWD only, and always have been. If AWD were of interest to buyers in that segment the Legacy would be a bigger player than it is.

People over-emphasize how many mainstream buyers want AWD in a car type vehicle. I would never buy a 2WD SUV or crossover, but I don't particularly want it in a sedan or minivan.

The Legacy is really outdated at this point. Many other more modern options.

Toys4RJill

You are not wrong. But someone can go to Mazda, and Ford, and Nissan and Subi to buy an AWD sedan. But not Toyota.

SW17LS

They won't be able to buy any sedan from Ford soon. Mazda is selling the 3 in AWD, but this is the first year for that. The 6 which compares to the Camry/Accord doesn't come in AWD yet, its slated to in 2020. Nissan, Altima is also in its first year for AWD. The tone of what's being said is that its odd that Toyota doesnt offer a mainstream sedan in AWD...and it really isn't odd at all.

The question is going to be, how much demand is there for AWD in those vehicles, and what % of their sales is AWD. I believe the sales distribution of AWD Fusions is quite small. The proof will be if those AWD options pull sales away from Toyota and Honda with the Camry and Accord just being FWD. We know from Toyota that the TNGA platform can support AWD variants of the Camry, Avalon and ES.

Toys4RJill

You are not wrong. But if a Toyota fan wants awd, then they had go RAV4 or Prius e-awd

SW17LS

Thats true, but you can't serve EVERY customer. If there are enough people who want an AWD Toyota Camry, they'll build it.

I mean, they made an AWD Prius...who would have ever thought they would have done that! lol

peteharvey

One of my staff own old Camry V6.
Have you been in the outgoing and in the latest Camry?
It's only an inch lower, but probably also the swoopier styling and the "pinched tail" styling of the trunk.
Do you notice that new Camry is a bit smaller than old Camry in leg room, head room, shoulder room, and shallower trunk?
It's cozier than old "boxy" Camry; the old boxy Camry had a more capacious cabin & trunk.

mmarshall

......or step up to a Lexus IS / GS / LS.

mmarshall

I never did understand why the partnership between those two companies broke up ......they had a good thing going. With Ford and Firestone, I can understand it, after the fiasco with the Wilderness tires on the Explorer, and the major disagreement between the two companies on how they dealt with it. But Subaru and L.L Bean seemed to have a deal that worked....I saw a lot of them sold in my area (D.C. suburbs), and, if anything, they were probably even more popular in New England. Ford also seemed to have a deal with Eddie Bauer that worked, and that's another combination that broke up for puzzling reasons.

Toys4RJill

I look at if from this prospective. There is no awd Corolla hatch or Camry because it would just eat into the higher profits of the RAV4. Toyota will not sell more Camry awds and more RAV4s, they will sell more Corolla's and Camry's and less RAV4's. So if they offered at $24 or $25K Corolla hatch which is available in some markets, they would just sell less domestic produced RAVs which start at higher price points.

mmarshall

Bingo. You've hit the nail on the head.....exactly what I have been saying for months. Auto companies, in general, are doing all they can to get people out of sedans and into higher-profit SUVs. But Subaru, by pricing the base-model Legacy so low, seems to be bucking the trend.....they are actually making it easy for customers to get into a sedan.

Toys4RJill

I cant comment on ALL companies. My comments were strictly related to just Toyota (excluding the Lexus brand). I believe Ford and GM have/had awd model sedan. So does Mazda, Nissan. I also do not consider the RAV4 an SUV, it's a cross-over, it's far more car than SUV.

LexBob2

Legacy sales are -22% year to date though. This reinforces that consumers aren't buying sedans like they used to.

mmarshall

The RAV-4 is the classic crossover CUV, although the basic idea of a crossover goes as far back as the 1995 Outback, and, in the opinion of some auto historians, even to the 1980/81 AMC Eagles (I agree with those historians).

In the sedan lineup, Ford has an AWD Fusion and AWD Lincoln MKZs/Continentals......though they may (?) be on borrowed time. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think GM has any AWD sedans left in the American market, though the Opel-Based Buick Regal has the AWD Wagon version. The AWD Lacrosse is out of production now.

Toys4RJill

I just see the RAV4 as a high riding car. So a RAV4 or a Camry, same similar price points, I view them as pretty much the same things, both are cars, the RAV4 just rides higher and has a hatch.