rogerh00

Toyota released images of upcoming EV's. https://electrek.co/2019/06/07/toyot...celerate-plan/

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

The ones in the back look like xB revivals albeit in EV form

LeX2K

What kind of double speak is this?

Sulu

I would not put much stock in these single quotations; we do not know the whole context from which they were taken (quoted out of context). I sense some anti-Toyota bias (holding Toyota's past marketing bias against EVs against them) from that author.

Toys4RJill

I think Toyota can’t figure out what they want to do. They make tons of money off their hybrids. However, if their competitors are going towards EV (which they are) then Toyota does not look very competitive with their current hybrids and just one plug-in. Toyota needs to move towards full electric vehicles. And all of their Lexus models should be plug-in.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

no sedans in the pic

Toys4RJill

Lol. Don’t tell you know who. (Just kidding Marshall)

jer

Looks like they are keeping all their options open which is a good thing. Being in Florida, having an EV is fine unless one has to evacuate. Can't put electricity in a can, and no guarantee EV stations would be up and running- think it's gonna be a while before this is perfected. Just my .02

rogerh00

On the other hand you can't pump gasoline out of the ground with the power out. A 5 gal gas can only goes so far. The key is not to wait to evacuate at the last minute.

corradoMR2

Agree though that would be short-sighted on Toyota's part relying on their hybrids to propel them forward in 2-3 years from now. I'm getting the itch to go EV especially with the high gas prices in Canada, new federal incentive, and most importantly, the increasing portfolio of nice EVs. The South Koreans are coming in with full force in the mainstream area while the Germans are doing the same in the luxury area. Toyota needs to play catch up, once again, which seems to be the story of late regarding their conservatism with powertrains and user-integrated tech.

rogerh00

Good post Joe. I agree totally. I would like to think my next vehicle can be an EV but I'm skeptical. I also wonder if buying one one these first gens would be smart. So far I love the Audi E-tron but at $80k+ without incentives it will probably be off my radar. The Toyota post I gather was just meant for the Chinese and Euro market since their Govt's are demanding them but I'm glad to hear Toyota is in the game. I wonder if they are really playing catch up. They did have a RAV4 EV a few yrs ago. Toyota has a history of being able to keep things under wrap until they are ready.

riredale

My impression is this: Some government bureaucrats, in sync with the "world is coming to an end in 12 years" folks, are insisting on a certain percentage of EV sales. Automakers are burning the midnight oil (!) to develop new EV models in response. But few of the public want to buy them, especially for the high prices they command. And even at those high prices the automakers are losing a lot of money per EV sold.

This is not a workable model for the long term, and I think the Toyota beancounters can see that. Meanwhile, Toyota hybrids blend in effortlessly with the existing transportation infrastructure. Interesting times.

Toys4RJill

Yes, it would be short-sighted but they are big profits for Toyota. I think Toyota just really missed it by not offering plug-in capability on their Lexus models and many of their Toyota products. Its not like they don't have the technology, they use it in the Prius. A new plug-in Toyota or Lexus would be the perfect solution for myself.

Even more frustrating is that Toyota insists on selling many of their North American hybrids with the older hybrid while other parts of the world receive the newer lithium ion batteries.

What would you be looking to achieve with an EV and what would you replace? I ask because you would still require at least $500 per year for charging cost vs around $1200 per year for your UX on gas. A Plug-in UX would likely be closer to $600-$700..Numbers approx based on Canada Fuel Consumption guide.

Sulu

The Chinese and the Europeans are being forced into developing and selling EVs, and other countries' automakers that want to sell in those 2 regions are being forced to go along -- whether they were ready or not -- or lose out.

The Chinese are being forced into EVs because their long reliance on coal has really dirtied their air. Only EVs can help to keep their air from getting any dirtier at this point.

The Europeans are being forced into EVs because their reliance on diesel over the past 2 decades (to reduce greenhouse gas emissions) has backfired; diesel emissions are low in CO2 (a greenhouse gas) but are otherwise just too dirty. A number of major European cities are banning diesel cars for being too dirty; and then the Dieselgate scandal affected not only VW but the other German automakers also. Only electrification and EVs can help the Europeans right now.

The Americans and the Japanese, that do not have a history of reliance on diesel-powered cars, were not affected by the turn away from dirty emissions vehicles. But they were hoping for a longer period to develop truly viable EVs. The Chinese, by sheer force of numbers, and the mighty European (especially German) automakers' all-powerful marketing and PR machines (yelling for all the world to hear that EVs are coming and EVs will be the saviour of personal automobiles) have forced their hands.

Toyota, which has traditionally been a very conservative and very Japanese automaker that likes to keep things very quiet and keep things in house is suddenly being forced to ask the Chinese to help with EV batteries. I take it that Toyota is developing the next-generation of EV batteries -- solid state batteries -- and needs a few years yet before they are ready in accordance with Toyota's high standards (which means taking a bit more time than other automakers). By relying on the help of the Chinese from 2020 to the mid-2020s, I am guessing that Toyota will be forced to use lithium-ion batteries that they were hoping to skip.

riredale

I guess I just don't see it. The Chinese and the Europeans could, at any moment, decide to frack and have all the natural gas they could possibly use to power natural gas plants to replace their dirty coal plants. But they don't. I conclude that the Chinese (and India, can't forget those folks) have concluded that coal is so cheap it's worth building thousands more coal plants, and they are doing so.

As for the Europeans and diesel, a hybrid gets you the same mileage as a diesel but without the NOx and particulates. So why EV? And, for that matter, why have the Germans shunned their nukes when nukes are an obvious major piece of the puzzle going forward?

Like I said at the outset, I just don't see it. I have to conclude that many decisions made by bureaucracies are done by watching the way the currrent (and fickle) winds are blowing. EV's are cool, let's all do EV's!

-OR-

This could be part of a long-thought-out strategy on the part of the Chinese. First, let's lock up the raw materials needed to do EV's. Then we insist car companies do EV's. This may, in fact, explain a lot.

Finally, there is nothing preventing Toyota from doing Lithium battery packs, which in fact they do use in the plug-in Prius. But I'm assuming that they've done their homework and concluded that Lithium doesn't gain you much in a hybrid, and Lithium cells suffer fundamental limitations compared to NIMH over the life of a hybrid car.