bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

your obvious answer doesn’t answer my question, but your assessment i agree with.

mmarshall

Well, if it doesn't answer your question, then, with all due respect, I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at. Isn't it obvious that the industry is going more and more towards electrification each year? It is becoming a trend...like that towards self-driving vehicles.

Your original question seemed to be what was the benefit of hybrid LS models over conventional gas-powered ones, besides emissions? There's gas mileage, of course, but that often goes hand-in hand with lower emissions. Hybrid models, all else equal, also place a lot less stress on brake pads/rotors because of the regenerative braking, where the free-wheeling electric motor also adds drag and slows the vehicle. It is not unusual for original pads and rotors to last the lifetime of a hybrid or full-electric vehicle. In fact, with full-electrics, one-pedal driving, without conventional brakes, may become a reality.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

A joke, huh? but a tesla will ‘seriously haul’ even more when you step on the ‘gas’. Not sure what you mean by ‘means business’. If tesla brings out a decent pickup truck, it could really be a game changer.

Why is it a sad state of affairs? It just means you’re out of touch with current demands in the marketplace.

You can’t turn off airbags, anti-lock brakes, and those older vehicles can’t stop themselves if you’re not paying attention, etc. glad you like less safe vehicles, but the market disagrees. I believe new cars are still selling in huge numbers because people want safer vehicles, that also happen to be more reliable, more efficient, etc.

Stroock639

and i think the current demands in the marketplace are a sad state of affairs, most people i've seen that had cars switched to suv/cuvs because they're 'safer' and because they do better the 3-4 days a year when it snows a bunch


exactly, they won't stop themselves, which allows more natural selection to occur lol... being the modern and contemporary person i am, i wouldn't call all the recent safety advancements themselves to be a bad thing, but (and i've seen this with my own eyes) once people know that their car can stop itself they tend to do more looking down and getting distracted by other things

and why would someone want to turn off airbags or anti lock brakes? those fall under my 'computers operating in the background where you don't notice' category, not like lane departure or pre collision systems which often start beeping and either turning the wheel / hitting the brakes when you don't want them to... and in some cases ive seen even almost cause an accident because someone got freaked out after their car did something they werent expecting it to

and ps, the e class actually can turn off ABS by having 'dyno mode' activated in the hidden service menu, but only those in the know are aware that's possible lol... no dealer scan tool required

Sulu

You really like to go out of your way to prove me wrong, don't you? I am not sure what I have done to you to deserve this attention. You should try to give it up, though; it becomes tiring and is definitely not a good way to win friends, and have a good influence and impression on people.

Other than to say that I am interested in hybrids and I have studied it a lot, I am not going to defend myself. Through experience, I know that it is useless to try defend what I know to people who do not understand and refuse to try to understand.

Toys4RJill

Not all offensive and I am very sorry you feel that way. So I do apologize. My goal has never been to try to prove you wrong. It’s more of a discussion IMO.

When you say that Toyota hybrids do not use real CVTs, it is at odds with what the literature says from Toyota. Apparently there are even thesis arguments discussing Toyota set ups. You said Toyota uses a fixed gear, that is also at odds what everything says.

Anyways, I am glad you are interested in hybrids and yes I have noticed you have provided quite a bit of information about hybrids.

Sulu

The LS 500h and the LS 600h before it were Lexus' flagships, and Lexus uses them to show off its expertise in hybrid technology. That is fine if you do not believe in hybrids, or prefer some other automakers' hybrid products.

The benefits of hybrids are (much) lower emissions, even more so than the lower fuel consumption, especially when compared to automotive diesels, which is what hybrids are now starting to replace.

There is also the lower maintenance costs, due to less mechanical wear, especially on brakes.

Hybrids have also generated improvements in the internal combustion engine, including automatic idle-stop, beltless engines as more electrical components and accessories are switched to running off a battery rather than an alternator that is always running (and placing a drag on the engine). Mild hybrids that include all of this technology by replacing both the alternator and the starter with a more powerful electric motor-generator, and can provide some assistance to the engine on acceleration, all done with a small battery (not the large, heavy battery that takes up trunk or underseat space) is a technology that has benefited from full hybrids.

Hybrids are also a stepping stone to your favourite, the truly usable electric car. My wife and I are interested in eventually purchasing an EV but she is worried about the lack of range, the long time it takes to recharge an EV battery, and trying to find a charging station along the route. And no, Teslas are not cars that she is interested in, nor are the Nissan Leaf nor Chevy Bolt; and while these vehicles may have a greater range, there is still the concern about recharging.

UDel

You don't know that. A plug in or full electric would likely sell in fewer numbers then the current hybrid LS, many people buy large flagship sedans to often cruise long distances, take long trips in comfort worry free, you can't do that with a full electric which is a huge compromise, plug in hybrid makes little difference when it comes to hybrids.

Tesla is as much about image as it is about the car, if people want a electric car and announce they are saving the world, they are going to buy a Tesla, they aren't going to buy a electric from a different brand because they don't have the image/Tesla name which is why only Tesla has been successful with electrics and others sell in minuscule numbers despite being much less expensive. Same basically with the Prius, Prius is really the only successful hybrid in the past 10 years despite its ugly looks because of the image of saving the world. Even the Lexus CT which was basically a luxury Prius couldn't sell because it did not have the image/Prius name.

Sulu

Plug-in hybrids require a large battery that will take up floor space or trunk space, compromising the space people want when they buy a large flagship. And once that 20 or 30 mile all-electric range is used up on that long road trip, the plug-in hybrid is nothing but a normal hybrid, but with a larger, heavier battery that is being dragged around but is never fully used during that long road trip.

jrmckinley

Well, Rivian is coming out with a pickup next year that will smoke a 6.2NA V8 (Rivian pick-up will do 0-60mph in 3 seconds), has 400 mile range, and has a towing capacity of 11,000 pounds which is higher than almost every single pickup on the market. It would also crush an ICE pickup's acceleration (when you "step on the gas") while in motion at any speed given the instant torque available only in EV's. Would that change your mind about an EV company of any sort being a "joke"? FWIW, Tesla was throwing around some towing capacity figures a while back when exploring their pickup concept that is way beyond what any current truck can tow.

Here's a good quick read on the Rivian pickup and a 2 minute video inside as well. https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-ne...-ar183564.html

703

Last generations drive train - 4.6 or the 5.0l v8 is better in a flag ship car. No doubt about it.

Toys4RJill

Why does it make little difference? Mercedes, BWM, Volvo have all gone plug-in hybrid Lexus is also on record for saying Lexus has lost some customers to Tesla S..Meanwhile Porsche has a plug-in. Cadillac has in world markets outside of the US a plug in.

UDel

And look how poorly plug in Mercedes, BMW, Volvo's sell. Nobody buys them just like people don't buy Lexus regular hybrids so what difference does it make if Lexus does a slightly different hybrid that still won't sell. Plug in hybrid mainly just has more battery power as opposed to non plug in and often the battery is bigger which takes up more space and adds more weight, once that is used up it becomes a big weight your car is towing that is not doing anything or not much, it costs money to recharge a battery too along with putting gas in it. Paying extra for a hybrid, especially when it comes to luxury cars basically makes zero financial sense and there is almost no real gain anywhere else in most cases.

Toys4RJill

Just to mention something about the plug in. Lots of misinformation on here. EV mode on Toyota Prius Prime can bypassed and set to hybrid mode. Full range is about 185 farther with a Prime vs a Prius. With BMW, you can also save the EV power for a different time, you don’t use it all at once. As for space, that is an argument but it’s not that detrimental.

Always, I agree that a hybrid LS makes no sense. A plug in would of been cool for those who live in the city. In fact all Toyota models should of been a plug in for the city users imo. I am not sure if I could go with a Prime, but a more conventional Toyota or Lexus like CT style with plug in would be perfect for me. I could possibly go 5 straight days every week without ever using gas. Sad Toyota does not offer a plug in for the hybrid LS.

For the Lexus LSh, they could of used the V6t and used the hybrid and offered plug in. But instead, you get a detuned 3.5 and hybrid that does not match up well with its peers in the class.

AJT123

Yes but I prefer a proper internal combustion engine. Not a golf cart battery pack zinging me from place to place. Or range anxiety. Or crappy build quality and plain-Jane looks.

Doubt GM and Ford are up nights. They've been making trucks for what, 70 years now? The American public will never not buy an insane amount of F-150s and Silverados, just won't happen, ever.

No, it means I'm a car enthusiast and don't like where engines/powertrains are going. Do I not have the right to feel that way? An 80k 4 cylinder E-Class?? V8s you can really only get in trucks anymore? Am I supposed to jump up and down because we are losing wonderful (efficient I might add) engines all in the name of CAFE BS?

My 2004 V8 gets 27-28MPG hwy and LS460s get 30. Is that not good enough? I'm not hearing great things about economy on the new LS500. A brand new Suburban gets 25 hwy MPG, that not good enough either?

Or call me out of touch or nostalgic, I'm not offended. Like I said that LS430 and upcoming GX460, both with great V8s, will be in my garage until I'm 90.


Edit: I remembered this article said they averaged 19MPG in this LS500h, so I went to the garage and pulled up my fuel average, the total average that never gets reset: 19.6. It's been tens of thousands of miles since that counter has been reset. I drive 80% city 20% highway as a rough average. 19.6.

Ever hear anything but gushing praise about any LS powered by the old UZ?