Toys4RJill

How would you know you would not enjoy an ES or Avalon every morning?

Toys4RJill

I read your previous post, it was good. I don’t think it matters if its better or not to a lot of people. The Sienna, Odyssey and Pacifica are all very competitive within one another. What could the OP possibly do better with a Pacifica that he could not do with a Sienna? The OP has a number of complaint threads about the Pacifica, that is very telling. The Sienna starts about $5K more than the Pacifica I think, so that a major factor IMO. I have always thought Toyota and Lexus products are mid pack performers, not #1 , but reliable and value come into a question and Toyota seems to do well at this. If it were me, I would trade the Pacifica for a Sienna and keep the Sienna for the long haul, it seemed to work for my brother who kept his first Sienna 11 years, now on his second, I guess they plan to keep it at least 10 years, so that is two vehicles, paid in full, for 21 years. To me, that is value.

mmarshall

I can usually tell from a review and/or a test drive. I don't like the new ES at all....even less-so with the 45-series tires. The 2019 Avalon I sampled with 55-series tires (an XLE model) would be acceptable, but still, IMO, just not quite as nice of a car to drive as the Lacrosse...and not as plush-looking inside. It would probably be more reliable, of course.The Kia Cadenza, IMO, would be about the equal of the Avalon, but lacks the Avalon's nice 55-series rubber....but its reliability, according to CR, has not been up the the level of other recent Kia products.

We're getting somewhat off-topic, though (me included). This is actually Steve's thread on his own satisfaction with the Pacifica.

tex2670

Actually, you just proved my "point", because if you read the post I responded to, the "point" was that repeat purchases by customers do not automatically point to which minivan is "best" in class. There are lots of reasons for repeat purchases which have nothing to do with which car is "best", most reliable, etc.

Toys4RJill

So if the Pacifica is so great and class leading. Why is nobody buying them?

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/co...130519039.html

mmarshall

Two things. First, the ever-growing SUV craze, and second, the minivan-stigma that you can (primarily) thank the auto-press for. The more SUVs that are on the market, the more alternatives for people that know that a minivan is the best vehicle for them and their families, but simply don't want to be seen in one. It's called submitting to peer-pressure.

Toys4RJill

I don't agree with this. If the Sienna and Odyssey are holding their market share, then then maybe the Pacifica is not really the best in class, or at least the buyers who are cross shopping them do not think this way.

mmarshall

Well, I never said the Pacifica was the most reliable....FCA products, in general, do not have a good reputation in that area. But the Chrysler minivans have always been known for being innovative.....don't forget, they invented the entire minivan vehicle-segment in 1984, and it took the competition years to catch up.

Toys4RJill

I don’t see the relevance of what Chrysler did in 1984. Currently Chrysler is having trouble moving their van whereas Toyota and Honda seem to be holding steady.

mmarshall

Well, if actually inventing a major vehicle-segment (and dominating it for years) is not relevance in your view, then I'm not sure how to respond to that.

AJT123

You mean other than inventing the segment? Agreed Chrysler cars are garbage (my Grandfather drove them his whole life, all junk) but Chrysler invented the minivan, based off the K-Platform of all things.

The K-car is what saved Chrysler. Pretty innovative to make it into a practical minivan.

Toys4RJill

So the they invented the segment in 1984, but now in 2019 they are losing sales year over year. Meaning what of their invention? Nothing. So Toyota and Honda who did not invent the segment, are holding their share where charging more for their models. I just don't see the point of talking about Chrysler in 1984.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJT123

Agreed Chrysler cars are garbage

So if Chrysler cars are garbage, how can the Pacifica be best in class?

AJT123

They invented the segment. They were first. That's worth mentioning and commending Chrysler for.

I never said Pacifica was best in class. It's probably the most appealing in class but I would never buy one over a Sienna or Odyssey. For the price of a loaded out minivan I'd put my wife in a 2 or 3 year old Denali Yukon, for that matter.

tex2670

Exactly. You don't know how to respond because you are too stuck on history. History may be interesting, but not necessarily relevant. Just keep in mind that parents in young families considering their minivan may not have even been alive in 1984. They do not care in the least who was the first to market in this segment--nor should they. They aren't historians; they are buying a vehicle. It's not who built the first mousetrap--it's who built the better mousetrap.

Lexus didn't build the first luxury car, but....

mmarshall

Yes and no. In the 1960s, and to a lesser extent the 70s, they built some of the most durable engines and RWD automatic transmissions on the planet...which accounted for their widespread use in taxicabs and police cars. But, yes, the rest of the vehicles, aside from the powertrains, were poorly-built junk, and, when the FWD models debuted in the late 70s/early 80s, even the drivetrains became troublesome as well.

Agreed.....and that is the one thing that cannot be taken away from the current Pacifica....it is the latest version of a long line of predecessors that not only invented the segment, but also moved it forward.

BTW, the Dodge Grand Caravan is still available, brand-new, at a significantly lower price than the Pacifica, but it is based on an older platform, and is less-sophisticated.

https://www.dodge.com/grand-caravan.html



Yes, but one problem, back then, was using K-car transmissions in the larger, heavier minivans. We all know what that led to LOL.