jrmckinley

Currently have a 2019 RX hybrid as a loaner and took it on a 700 mile trip and started noticing the vast amounts of data it is collecting on me via advanced tech and safety features. Things like:
- How many times I change lanes without using turn signal (lane keep assist would log this)
- How many times I put my blinker on to change lanes when someone was in my blind spot (blind spot monitoring would log this)
- How many times the car warned me about getting too close to the car in front of me while I was driving (the pro-active braking system that thinks you're going to run into the back of someone who is stopped or slowing down)
- For those who have cars that integrate with your phone through CarPlay, etc., how often are you driving while texting, emailing, etc. Are you using voice or typing? How fast are you driving while typing on your phone?

It reminded me of a time about 7 years ago where Progressive sent me a device to plug into my car for 30 days to record my driving (I specifically remember it tracking distance over 30 days, average speeds and "hard braking"). Then I started wondering if cars today could send that data to an insurance provider. Wouldn't be that hard - when you buy a car the VIN is documented, then you insure your car using the VIN so it would be a very simple match... And lots of new cars have built in internet to allow easy transmission of the data. So I did some quick research and found that there are no US laws protecting the data that a car can collect on you and not much protecting what they can do with it (to a very large degree). All of the driving data that a car collects on you is owned by the car manufacturer - makes me wonder if they'd sell it to an auto insurance company for the right price. Then, once the insurance provider buys it your data is at the mercy of their privacy policy - meaning they could pick & choose which pieces of info to sell off to other 3rd party companies (what type of food do you search for when looking for a lunch stop, etc).

Like it or not, big data is here to stay and the dots are pretty easily connected. Would you support your car selling your data to Geico, AllState, etc?

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

it's inevitable. i don't recall having to sign a 'privacy policy' for a car, but maybe we do when we buy/lease them in all that paperwork...

insurance companies are one party keenly interested in the data. the other of course is the government. can you say automated reckless driving and speeding tickets?

Toys4RJill

How do you know what the RX is collecting?

For Apple Car Play, you can’t use the phone and text while it’s plugged in. You have to use voice from the car.

Johnhav430

No I would not support it. The way I look at is, is you should go to jail when you shoplifted, not when it crossed your mind but you knew better. This type of data wants to say you are a risk, you will not get a good driver discount and you will pay a surcharge. It's not based on the fact that over the last 20 years, you've had no claims.

I'm not ready for all this AI. I've only reached the stage where I now remember to delete my bluetooth pairing in a rental (I remembered on the Camry from 3 weeks ago!).

We were talking about RFID yesterday and someone told me they now can monitor psi in the NFL game *****. Before it wasn't possible because a QB knew that the ball behaved differently if it were embedded as such. Now, they cannot.

Call me old-fashioned, but I love fighting in NHL hockey, and I love blown calls in the NHL. I just think we have to have some ties to the past, life is not a video game. We have to live it sometimes.

jrmckinley

All cars starting in 2014 were required to come with a "black box" like those found in airplanes so it can be analyzed after a crash. So...I know it's always collecting and storing something. The question is how much it's storing? So all "newer" cars have computers used for storage, high tech safety features monitoring what you're doing and trying to prevent accidents, and most have WiFi. I'm connecting the dots. Perhaps incorrectly for now, but likely I'm not incorrect for long.

I've never used CarPlay, but you don't have to plug in to use it- you can also connect wirelessly. I believe that allows you to type on your phone (not just using voice) but not certain..? Regardless, your car would know if you were using your phone in one way or another - what % of the time you're using it while driving, how fast you're going while using it, etc.

jrmckinley

I hear you- it's getting like Minority Report. The reality is big data is here and advancing at a very rapid pace. Part of what I sell includes predictive analytics in healthcare - helping hospitals understand rising risk patients - based on all kinds of factors (socio-economic, etc). It's pretty fascinating- The day is coming where you'll get a phone call from your doc telling you to come in because you're about to get sick, need to be monitored, could be close to having a heart attack, etc. I call this predictive & preventative medicine. Don't get me started on what Amazon could do given the millions of data points they can connect...and how Google knows you better than your spouse does. And both of them are getting into healthcare.

There is so much value in data that I have no doubt the auto manufacturers are or will start using it- the question is how they will use it and if it will end up offering a better "experience" for the consumer (driver).

Johnhav430

Just thought of this....don't remember what year it would have been, but we saw a presentation on the "connected car." This sounded really far out there, and we even thought, why? So the presenter said well think of it this way, you want to know where to park for the lowest price, and your car just tells you and you get there. Ok that sounded reasonable, but it will never happen.

It did lol

edit How about this one? Cummins X15 linked to GPS. The tractor is set to 65 mph on cruise. GPS is showing it's gonna reach a hill and the coast is clear. So the computer allows the truck to slow down to 62 mph, and when it starts to go downhill the computer even lets it go a little faster to make up, and even applies the engine braking efficiently. I think this requires an automatic. And all of this is to get the mpgs say from 7.5 to 7.8 or so...no joke....

sm1ke

iTrader: (5)

I agree when it comes to things like hard braking. Hard braking isn't illegal, and shouldn't be used as a criteria in determining whether you're a "safe driver" or not. Some people just brake harder naturally. It's not ideal behaviour, but it isn't illegal either.

With that said, when logging things like lane changes, excessive speeds in low-speed areas, running stop signs, etc., those should absolutely affect your insurance. In those cases you are indeed breaking laws, regardless of whether you're caught or not. I think it should have some effect on your insurance, but the data shouldn't be used to issue automated tickets.

Johnhav430

I heard what they are really looking for is people who lie about the distance from home to work. The thing is, I think agents lie to get the lowest quote and business, without the insured even knowing. Has anyone out there had a 4 mile commute to work, then taken another job 40 miles away? Did you notify your insurance carrier to increase your rates? Just because you never thought of it, doesn't make you dishonest...you know how good you felt when you got your bonus for 2018? That's honest and it was earned. Insurance rates and discounts, that's really dishonest. I once told my agent I'm switching, and he goes oh, you can take another 9% off, I'm switching you to paperless for auto. Why didn't I get "nine percent off" from the very beginning, instead of when I said I'm switching?

edit had a convo with law enforcement today (don't worry I'm not locked up), and I am so clueless with technology today! I thought those trunk mounted license plate readers were to basically identify stolen cars or those which owe money on summonses etc. I had no idea the extent to which we are tracked--plates are read in ms and placed into databases that are not just linked to DMV databases but also anyone can get it as it's for sale. Banks, sheriffs, blah blah blah And here I thought I kept a low profile...person told me how absolutely stupid people are who do 23 and me and give up DNA. They said your entire family is now on the hook, not just the person who decided to do it. dumb.

jrmckinley

Slippery slope, but makes for an interesting topic and debate. Same could be said for apps like Waze, Google Maps, etc. reporting your speed. They know how fast you're driving while you're using the app. Google uses bots to read through your emails, why wouldn't they intrude on the data of your driving habits and report it to insurance?

Sulu

You did not answer Jill's question.

While you may be correct that Toyota collects and saves all that safety-system data that you listed, unless you work for Toyota and/or have seen the list of data collected, you do not know, and you are only speculating that all the data you listed is collected.

And what you did not mention is that Toyota and Lexus are only now allowing Apple CarPlay on its infotainment systems because they took that long to come to an agreement with Apple regarding what data CarPlay collects. Toyota and Lexus still do not allow Android Auto on its infotainment systems because they are still negotiating with Google regarding what data Auto collects (and presumably sends back to Google).

Toys4RJill

Well, I asked about the new RX because I was wondering if the updates were done to the newest model year. In contrast, my parents new Avalon is always “connected” to Toyota. My understanding is that all new Toyota’s will be connected. As for Car Play, it only plugs into my parents Toyota, there is no wireless option and when you plug in, the car forces you to disconnect from Toyota Entune that tracks you. With the CarPlay, the moment you try to use your hand held phone, it automatically disconnects from the car.

jrmckinley

Yes, I did actually. As you directly quoted me in your response, I said I don't know what it's collecting and that I'm connecting dots (which means I'm making some assumptions and drawing my own conclusions). So I'm directly answering the question.

The auto makers don't have to disclose to us consumers what info they store, so there is no way I would know (and I don't own the RX as pointed out in my original post- it's a loaner). The thread here is more hypothetical as something that had me thinking what was possible and where (IMO) things may head.

Benoit

...and wait until you see what the phone in your pocket collects.

Johnhav430

I almost think that not having your activities tracked 24/7/365 is a luxury today. Off the top of my head, call centers were once located in AR because of the labor laws. People were tracked--how many calls, average talk time, abandons. I heard of a woman who was nationally recognized and given stock options, promoted. Then when the Fortune 100 co. that she worked for realized they had cradle to grave tracking on the calls that came in, they concluded she was hanging up on people, increasing her call qty, lowering her talk time, and really being an overall superstar. Maybe it sounds nuts that a Fortune 100 didn't know call center agents were hanging up on people boosting their numbers and working backwards to what they were told to achieve. It really wasn't that long ago, this was 2000. Human are always gonna be for the most part one step ahead, especially criminals.

When I say Fortune 100 not realizing the above was happening, imagine a co. like GM and the way they operate in 2019. Imagine a bank like Wells Fargo blaming fraud on $12/hr employees.