Lexus human interface issues and climate control discussion
 

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.clu...96c915efa6.jpg


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.clu...fd58cae99b.jpg

It wasn't that long ago where Lexus made technology that was relatively easy to use. But for the last 5 years, they can't seem to get away from the stupid laptop style track-pad?

The trackpad and confusing menu system is doing opposite of their 'philosophy' highlighted above.

Hope you have the flamesuit on, its about to get hot up in here

really? there are defenders of this crap?

bmw and merc and audi have already brought back the touch screen, and they still have remote touch for redundancy for those luddites who refuse to use touch.

If your car has 1 or more huge screens then touch may not be ideal (looking over to find the right spot to touch on a large area is pretty distracting). My car doesn't have touch screens and I don't really miss it or there finger prints!. I like voice commands a lot, it has loads of buttons, a 'regular' round controller. Of course mb and nmw now offer hand gesture recognition which is pretty cool too.

wow that's terrible! love the heat/cool controls on my g90's seats because it's simply one rocker button for each seat and 3 red and 3 blue lights on each to show the level of heat/cool. (button in between shown below is heated steering wheel). the button below that (angles up) is the rear power sunshade.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.clu...e971ce9a9d.png

I've have used the Lexus RTI in both its configurations (physical controller i.e. '10 HS, '14+'17 RX and touchpad i.e. RC F, NX). Also have had past models with touchscreens (i.e. 05, 07 RX, 08 IS). Throw in the current Stinger with a touchscreen and I have had many cars with both types to formulate my preference.

I prefer ALL day long, ANY day, the Lexus RTI, but has to be the touchpad, specifically with minimal force feedback selected. Main reasons:

- Prefer the better line of sight provided by the recessed screen.
- No finger prints.
- Prefer the ergonomic comfort of controlling the cursor while my arm is already rested on the center arm rest vs reaching over/bending forward with a touchscreen.
- And yes, I have no issues with the precision/control/selection using the RTI though it takes time to "master it" compared to the direct selection of a touchscreen.

The problem with the media/reviewers is they do not use the RTI long enough to get used to it so the majority of them trash it. Of course some Lexus owners don't like it either. To each their own.

Our '19 BMW has both the controller and touchscreen and I find myself, just out of habit, using the controller more often. I'm getting more used to the touchscreen option and agree that it's quick and convenient. Having both options for now is a plus imo.

I've had 3 Lexus products with RTI, 3 Lexus products with touchscreen navigation and 1 with no screen. I truly don't understand what people's major malfunction is with the RTI. Now, I don't have a car with the new interface, but my Jeep didn't have physical buttons for the heated seats and heated wheel, nor does my Pacifica or any other Mopar uConnect vehicle. Is it annoying? A little. Is it a big deal? No.

For me, the RTI systems are the same as the touchscreen systems, you just make selections with a mouse or trackpad. Do I wish my computer was touchscreen? No.

The bottom line today is you just can't sit in an advanced vehicle and know how everything works. You need to take a little time to learn the interface. I don't find that any different from anybody else's systems. When I sit in a Mercedes or a BMW or an Audi which I do fairly often as I test drive a lot of cars, I don't immediately know how to do much.

I just helped my friend buy a 2016 ES350 with RTI, and he is a total technophobe. He literally cant even get on a web browser and find a website, the people at our office had to set websites up as icons on his computer desktop. He's totally overwhelmed by the tech in the ES, which doesn't have much tech, but the RTI is not an issue for him, even a little bit.

I really don't get it. On top of that, once you do the voice training Lexus' voice recognition is pretty good. In the new LS its dynamic and attached to the cloud. You can just hit the button and say "put the heated seats on high" and it will. There are no specific commands, its like talking to Alexa. Oh, and 2019 Lexuses have Alexa! You can just tell Alexa to do that too, or set a destination, etc.

they have laser sensors for every occupant and automatically determine what kind of heating/cooling you need. Otherwise, sure, even Corolla has buttons for heated seats.

it is mostly because journalists spend few hrs with the car and dont care to learn how it works, or people who come from different interface spend 20m in Lexus test drive and it is annoying... and also because by default, it is set to most sensitive setting so if you are unused to it, it is hard to hit things.

Same for voice control, if you are there for 10 minute test drive, you will not bother to use voice training... now with Alexa, there is really no excuse as it is most used system in the world.

It's just not that big of a deal to me. My Highlander and my GS have the same system, but the Highlander is a touchscreen while the GS is remote touch. My wife and I both prefer the remote touch. I like how the wrist-wrest helps me to steady my hand, how my hand can naturally rest there - versus reaching/stretching to the touchscreen, and I like how the GS screen is higher up and recessed under a hood, which wouldn't work with a touchscreen.

I am not a fan of touchscreens overall, but it wouldn't stop me from buying one.

For some reason its cool for journalists to rag on Lexus, while the same learning curve exists for everybody else's systems too. I drove a new Audi A8 a couple weeks ago and if you asked me to turn on the heated seats, I would have had no clue. Its not different for them, but they praise Audi's MMI and condemn Lexus' enform, Is the MMI better? Yes, but the Enform is not "terrible".

Remote touch is fine. Personally, I prefer the joystick/mouse-style to the trackpad-style RTI because I find that road imperfections cause me to unintentionally move or click more easily in the track pad version. That being said, I've only used it in loaner vehicles - my IS has the joystick. So maybe I need more time to get used to it. I had a rental Camry recently and had to use its touch screen. I didn't like it because any random movement, such as one caused by a bump in the road, could make me fail to press the button I was trying to press. Not only that, I had to lean slightly forward to reach the topmost part of the screen. Kind of annoying at worst, but I still prefer using something like RTI.

What baffles me is that many car companies continue to produce interface systems that are widely panned, and criticized as being distracted. The engineers and developers clearly don't have lay people test them out; and then when the products hit the real world, there is just little movement in improvement.

The heated seats--I just don't get it. Lots of other car companies have buried the heated seats in the infotainment system for years, and get roasted every time. But other companies keep following this model.

BMW was the first to get flamed with iDrive--but, to their credit, they've worked it out, and it's really intuitive now.

It's disappointing that Lexus doesn't really care enough to get their systems back to being user-friendly.

I also don't understand why anybody would want to turn off the air conditioning. Its an automatic system, just set the temp and forget it. Turning off the system makes it humid and muggy in the car.

Interesting comments. Well said.

depends where you live. I have my fan on always when im in the car but have the air conditioning compressor off unless its a hot day. And even then, do I turn off the compressor 10 minutes before arrival to dry the vents. Doesn't make sense to use more gas when you don't need it.

As for RTI, it won't matter as much when we start having semi autonomous vehicles, though the Lexus system isn't that great.

Touchscreens are nothing but cost saving measures cause it's hell a lot easier to drop in the panel than make knobs and switches. That's why they are coming back big time.

To me touchpad/mmi gives you the ability to stack screen up high right within the road height and muscle memory in your resting hand comes in play then. Touchscreen requires you to lift your hand and hunt pixels.

General problem with Lexus touchpad is static sensitivity, in other words touchpad doesn't correct your finger movement when car is moving nor it takes into considerations road imperfections.

The Enform trackpad in the 18' RC is the first system I've owned. First car with a monitor in it. So, small sample size.
I like the track pad and Enform. Made sense to me from day 1. Would do it again.
I don't understand the bitter hatred it seems to generate for some people. I respect other people's experience, I just don't relate with it.

I don't like the floating turtle things as much that some of the cars have. I don't know why that would be better than a common trackpad that works on devices everywhere.

I strongly dislike the touch screens on some of the rental cars I've been in. They tend to be too far away, always greasy, and lots of glare.

I haven't used any of the other systems people say they like. They may be better, don't know.

I like reviews from experts, but I take it all with a grain of salt. Different people value different things. I like my RC because I can comfortably take 1k mile trips in comfort with good performance. Reviewers that pan it for not being yet another BMW/AMG clone want different things than I do. They aren't wrong, just value different.
Hollywood continues to make massive $$ on movies the critics review poorly.
Sometimes reviewers are right, sometimes they aren't in touch with the everyday person.

I haven't looked a the market/research data to get an idea if people like the trackpad or not. I've definitely heard the noisy critics and posters that don't like it. They may be totally right, and Lexus may be messing this up. I'd like to see some research data though before saying Lexus is totally buggering this up. Are they really loosing sales over this? Not mine.

[/QUOTE]

Modern AC units use almost no fuel, and its just not the way these systems are intended to be used. They're designed to be set and forgotten.

Yet, you can remote touch your way to turn off the AC in the a Lexus. Its a cost cutting method by Lexus.

Why aren't you discussing the fact that there is no hard A/C compressor button in Audis, Mercedes, uConnect equipped Mopar vehicles, Land Rovers, Jaguars, etc? The reason there's no hard button is its meant to be a very seldom used if ever used button. My LS460 has a hard button. Never use it.

Clearly you haven't experienced the latest Remote Touch which regained it's side enter buttons, and the second generation RTI track pad on Gen10 equipped vehicles which is worlds better than the clunky first generation. It's by no means perfect, but it does it's job. Plus for the most part there are voice commands or physical buttons for most things.

If it makes you feel better. Lexus will overhaul their infotainment system and include touchscreen again supposedly around the time the next generation 5RX comes to fruition.

Where is the hard button for the LS460? Yes, all the others should be shamed as well for not having a button to turn it off. A touch screen button or hard button is the same IMO.

My 2014 IS350 had a physical button for AC as well but I never used it. I just set it on auto and let the HVAC system decide if/when it needs the compressor.

Many of you guys have had multiple late-model cars with a variety of interfaces. All I'm familiar with is the mouse on my 2010 RX. Some thoughts:

(1) I don't think I'd like a touchscreen, especially one where I had to reach over and divert my attention from the road. I'd also think that road bumps would make touching just the right area would be an issue. Certainly a pilot in an aircraft is constantly reaching up to a distant panel to push or turn things. But in an aircraft you have seconds to reach for the button, I think surprisingly in a car you really can't divert attention from the road for very long at all.

(2) It seems intuitive to me that controlling functions while my arm is resting on the armrest would give much greater accuracy and comfort.

(3) I've gotten used to the mouse in my RX, though I still hate the haptic feedback and have it set at the lowest level. But perhaps Lexus found it necessary to use it in order to try to "corral" the pointer during a bumpy ride.

(4) I tried using the touchpad in a 2019 RX loaner last month, thought it was clumsy. But then I spent a whole 30 minutes with it, so perhaps it would become far easier with practice.

(5) Saw my sister use her BMW controller while riding with her a couple of years ago. Dial/push/dial/push seemed clumsy and requiring a lot of attention to me at the time.

(6) To me the coolest implementation would be one that projects directly in front and then watches to see which button your eyes are looking at, at the time of some sort of "enter" physical button on the steering wheel is pressed.


Surely there must be some wonderfully-detailed automotive articles that look at all the various methods of control. Anybody have any particular favorites in mind?

There's an off button right next to the auto button.

Its just not a control most people use regularly or at all, and thus its removed in an effort to reduce button clutter.

Whats the difference between touching a button with your finger and touching a button with a cursor?

You can also just say "turn air conditioning off" and it turns off.

Yes Lexus is falling behind with innovations, they are in the Relentless pursuit of keeping up with the Kardashians. Mechanically, they haven't spend much in R&D over the last 10 years, they are still using the same old 3.5 V6 from 10 years back, and the 4 cylinder engines are borrowed from the Toyota lineup. The billion dollar R&D V8 engine from the LS era has been dropped.

....as expected lets flame the OP, and then the OP unleashes the next set of qualms against TMCo.

The current setup sucks....RTI or Remote Mouse///Fine. Its a great idea, meant to differentiate itself from the clicky controller setup everyone else went with after with BMWs Idrive.

Yes, you can train the system, and fix up the initial shortcomings, heck Toyota finally is launching carplay etc etc...however the same journos we claim to be bias, probably spent equal parts of time in each vehicle. and If those other vehicles are easier out of the box, then yes then those metrics arent really flawed, all they represent is that the Lexus interface needs fine tuning and does not work out of the box, just like all 2019 models before October production for carplay (lol). Plus, most delivery specialists dont really touch too much on the fine tuning bits of RTI.

However Lexus could care less...its not like sales have been impacted in any way possible for them to give this a second look. Most owners probably just pull up their phone and deal with it.

Yes I have used RTI, still not very good. Mind you decades ago, I used to game professionally and I have no problem with hand - eye co-ordination. Now I am in a office job, and I hate the feeling of being back in the office again once I enter into a modern car with screens and computer controls. Buttons will come back in a big way.

Even this Toyota 1985 EMV beats RTI from 34 years go.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.clu...b6c05518e8.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.clu...5f35596e9b.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.clu...a1f9e7698b.jpg

Agreed. Yes that was my point of the quote from their own brochures. Technology should be hidden away and not in your face, it should be intuitive. It shouldn't take more than 30mins to learn how to use the most basic stuff you need to do in your car once you drive it off for the first time. If it takes such a big learning curve, the technology has failed. If Toyota was a technology company, it would have dropped off the radar already.

I like my naturally aspirated V6. I don't want a twin turbo.
I really don't care when it was designed.
If others want that, there's places to go get that.

Other brands may have more cutting edge (or bleeding edge) tech. But rarely the reliability.
There are few products in the economy that are both cutting edge and highly reliable.

Lexus system is so hilariously bad, I'll never touch the brand with a 9 foot pole. Not to mention their entire product line is mediocre at best.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.clu...3e066e6a70.gif

:D