JDR76

My desire to lease is purely because I tend to get tired of cars after 2-3 years, and not about value or reliability. However, maybe it's because my current cars are just that good, or maybe I'm just growing out of that phase, but I'm nearing the lease end on both my Highlander and my GS and I'm not tired of either. So we're keeping the Highlander long term. I'd just buy out the GS too, but the value on it is way too poor for it to make sense. C'est la vie.

Johnhav430

A very basic assumption is everyone has google. It's pretty doubtful that anyone would overpay in this day and age.

The interesting thing is, and I have seen it myself, a person gets $12k off a $50k car, and thinks it was because they are a really good negotiator. My dad got a $39k Buick for $31k a while back. There were some not legit cars.com vehicles going for $27k (go and try to buy it, if you can it is a great price). It's not the $31k that made my dad a good negotiator, it's that he stuck with out the door pricing (don't fall for the invoice BS). Removed all the add ons and even the pre-printed add on fee already hard printed the dealer paperwork, and registration fees as well. The trick is the dealer wants to issue the plates so you can leave with the vehicle and the deal is finalized, but my dad says he'll get the plates himself and go down to DMV, maybe next week (they don't want the delay so they waive the charges).

Car sales may be a struggling business, and the successful ones tend to be owned by large corporations and not families, but it's still a business. No vehicle leaves the lot at a loss to the business.

SW17LS

People overpay every single day. As somebody who helps people buy cars from time to time, way more people overpay than pay fair prices.

Htony

In my working days company supplied vehicle every 3 years. Bad was we were allowed to choose one only from domestic big 3..
After retiring I had to purchase on my own. We typically keep cars for ~5 years or less. I wouldn't drive same car for 15 years.
It'll be boring and there will be no fun in it.

mmarshall

BMW, though, has a history of giving good lease deals. If the actual depreciation were in that range, some of those deals would be doubtful. That shows that, maybe, there apparently more involved in the BMW leases than just depreciation.

SW17LS

BMW inflates their residuals to give attractive lease rates. Their actual resale values are not as high as their residual values.

Johnhav430

I don't doubt it, but everyone has the opportunity to get the info needed to get a better deal. Back in late 2006 when no dealership in the nation had a E92 BMW to sell (8-12 wk order), I had found that BMW Manhattan was willing to deal. That is a corporate location. My issue was on the phone in September, they could NOT give me an allocation number, they said don't worry, you'll have one for October, November at the latest lol I took the $1800 discount and the dealer down the road said you don't need to go to Manhattan we can give you the same price and the allocation today.

They almost did the I get you sucka thing by saying they forgot training and MACO fees, but I refused to pay, and in the spirit of my dad they removed them. Truth be told, BMW Manhattan would not have forgotten so that would have been more than $1500 down the drain. As Teddy Nugent once said it's a free for all.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Sulu

That was one of the problems that contributed to GM's collapse a decade ago. At the beginning of the new model year, GM would list a retail price and some would buy at that price but others who were in the know would wait a few months when GM would offer massive discounts to get the cars off the lots.

What this did was suddenly and drastically drop the resale value of those cars, and those who bought at the original retail price suddenly found their still relatively-new cars to be worthless.

Johnhav430

See I don't follow this logic. Here in PA, when a new car comes in to a dealer, it is inspected. I find that weird and use it as a freshness date. People here have stated they don't care when a car is produced, I do. For a 1998 car, I prefer a 6/98 production, to a 7/97 production.

Back when the recession hit? I remember seeing a lot full of Chevrolets, with PA state inspections 15 mos old i.e. expired. The cars had been sitting more than a year.

Let's say it were an Impala. I have no idea what the prices were at the time, but if the car listed at $38k, and I got it for $20k, I would simply say what Toyota or Honda do I get for the same $20k? I don't care about the depreciation, I'm trying to get to work. I get that there ought to be consumer protections in place, but the likelihood of anyone paying a high price is small. It's a curve like anything else. How is a $20k car worthless, it's probably still $15k wholesale if brand new, with a list of $38k. That's not worthless.

SW17LS

Why consumer protections? The MSRP is right there on the car. Its not "wrong" for a dealership to sell a consumer a car for the MSRP and not offer a discount if they aren't asked. Its just business. People just need to put a little effort forward and do some research to figure out what a fair price is.

Toys4RJill

SW17LS

Absolutely. Lots of options. If somebody just walks into a dealership and pays MSRP that's their own fault.

Johnhav430

No, it's not wrong. In a utopian world buyers and sellers exchange goods and services at a fair price. That would be W39 th St. in Manhattan at 3 AM in 1995, or eBay.

My point is the percentage of people overpaying, is inconsequential. There are bound to be some people who are clueless, but given the fact most people have something as powerful as a laptop computer on their person, it's fine.

edit just thought of something that may better illustrate when it's not as fair--purchasing a diamond engagement ring. How many folks are willing to buy a diamond, without a GIA certificate to accompany? Many. Poor them (how else would anyone know what they actually got?), but I figure that's how cars were maybe in 1950 when it was harder to get the information. Here's a reality check for the males out there--do you know where you're wife or g/f's GIA cert is? I'm thinking say it's a g/f, you can't keep it where your wife would find it. And, how many women require it before they accept it (they should)?

mmarshall

"Fault"...or simple choice? Some people either have money to burn, or, for whatever reason, don't care if they pay full-list (or even more).

A perfect example was, some years ago, when the Chrysler PT Cruiser first came out.....one of those classic retro-styled vehicles that generated a lot of hype and demand at first. As I was stopping for dinner one night at one of my favorite restaurants, a middle-aged couple pulled up in a brand-new white PT Cruiser, with temporary dealer-tags. We got into a conversation about it, and the guy told me they had just bought it that afternoon....paid several thousand dollars over list for it (I don't remember exactly how much). I asked him (politely) if it bothered him to pad the dealer-coffers that way, and he said no, not a bit. He and his wife both liked the car, had enough in the bank to give the dealer what they wanted, took the attitude that money wasn't everything, and just didn't feel like waiting for prices to come down. So, I congratulated him on his purchase, reached into my brief-bag, pulled out a bottle of You-Know-What, and handed it to him. At least it would help keep the new paint nice.