Who has the quietest brand?
 

When I test-drove the Continental, the amount of engine noise during low-speed acceleration (non-turbo V6) seemed a little more than what I thought a flagship in this class should have (Steve, when he sampled one, agreed), though it was otherwise commendably quiet in almost all conditions. I haven't sampled the latest Navigator on the road, but it wouldn't surprise me to see it equal the S-class Hush-Factor. The materials that Lincoln in using on the interior of their very latest models, IMO, are quite impressive, and those solid materials probably help absorb more of the sound. Lincoln engineers are also trying hard to overcome the brand's stigma, in the past, of being a so-so nameplate of little more than rebadged Fords with just a little more wood and leather inside.

In some circumstances, it can actually be unsafe if vehicles are too quiet. There are cases of pedestrians with hearing or vision-impairment being hit because they simply were not aware of some electric or very quiet motor vehicles next to them....or where the direction of what little noise those vehicles make was came from. Of course, the obstacle-avoidance and automatic braking in many newer vehicles is supposed to prevent that, but not all of those systems have been perfected yet.

MMarshall, the only thing unsafe about EV's running quieter is the fact that people won't look up from their phones while they walk out into the middle of a busy city street.

And anyway, this thread is about interior noise levels, not exterior. big difference bud.

Were they all measured on the exact same roads? I fail to believe a cheaply made Chevy Malibu can achieve 65db especially with a crappy 1.5t

The biggest difference in noise I find on any luxury brand since the late 90's is a) tires, and b) road surface. Those two trump design features in any real-world application. Any automag test is just arguing about angels on a pin...

Living near/in/around Seattle or similar, our roads are gooved to shed water. Loud - so a really nice test bed. You can take that Lincoln, put on aftermarket Michelens, and it will sound like an '86 F150. Conversely, I have a 20 year old Acura SLX, with Toyo Open Country AT's, and it is super-quiet. Random harmonics once you take off the factory tires or try different road surfaces.

The anti-collision (obstacle avoidance) and automatic braking systems are not there because cars are too quiet. The external noise generator that we are starting to find on EVs and Hybrids is what is being put in place to substitute for the otherwise missing engine noise.

I agree. A car will be quiet on its original equipment tires (which, especially for a luxury car, may have been specially selected for that purpose), but switch to another tire, perhaps from another brand, that has a different tread pattern and/or different rubber compound, and road noise may rise (or it may even drop).

And how would you determine the quietness of a whole brand? It is difficult to measure the quietness of a particular model if it has different trim levels. For example, an ES Hybrid may be quieter than the normal ES, which in turn is probably quieter than the ES F-Sport with different tires and different suspension tuning.

How would you determine the quietness of a brand -- average out the different models available, e.g. IS, ES, GS, LS, RX, NX, etc? Do you average out the quietness of each model by trim level or do you treat each different trim level as a distinct model for averaging purposes?

Short of Rolls and Bentley, I think Lincoln and Buick probably have the quietest models if you take a medium

I think this would be interesting and is what I was expecting to be covered given the title of the thread (this thread is more about which brand produces the quietest model). To me, it would be interesting to know which brand has the lowest noise level when factoring in all models they produce. The methodology would never be perfect, but as long as you were consistent in your approach across all brands, it would be interesting to see the results.

Oh ****, you said the "B" word... :egads:

Rolls Royce Ghost is supposed to be the quietest, if cost is no object. Sound proofing insulation alone accounts for three hundred lbs of its curb weight. The frequency of the noise and where it's coming from will determine a noisy or quiet vehicle you're riding in. There's tire noise, different road surfaces and noise that travels from the tire contact patch to the rim and to the body.

Apparently the Ghost's right rear seating position is the quietest and according to RR hype, the only sound you should be hearing in it absent of radio or background chatter inside it is the ticking analog clock.

But for a more sensible ride, the LS430 might qualify as quiet. The LS460 has more direct injection clatter at idle apparently. The big Buick and Lincoln sedans should be quiet.

You've mentioned my two favorite brands overall LOL.

Buick's Quiet-Tuning is not just a bunch of ad-hype....in fact, it works, but, in my experience, more so on smooth, non-porous asphalt than on porous asphalt or concrete. Grainy, porous asphalt is becoming more common now because it gets rid of water faster and is less likely to have ice form on it in the winter...but it also increases road noise some.

Well, if you average out all of each brand's U.S.-market vehicles, maybe so...but only because of the Buick Cascada, a small convertible...Lincoln doesn't have any convertibles. The Cascada's fabric top is well-constructed, durable, and well-insulated by ragtop standards...but you can't compare it to, say, the discontinued Verano's roof, which, alone, even apart from all of the rest of the insulation in the car, has five separate layers of insulation. The Lacrosse and Enclave have similar insulation.

The quietest modern car I have personally sampled, BTW, is the Lexus LS460.

Having been driven in that very seat a couple of times, I can say that "hype" is an accurate term. :) Now having said that, the Ghost is by far the quietest vehicle I have ever been in. You still hear things, but even your own voice is enough to drown out anything, at least at in-town speeds (say, 40 MPH or less). Haven't really been on the highway in one.

So yeah I think RR is obviously up there in terms of quietness, if not tops.

It was going to be said sooner or later. Might as well deprive him of it for once LOL

Yes, that's part of it. Blind people, though, are not likely to be using cell phones...at least coventional ones.

Here's a good article on the subject.

https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/16/...estrian-safety

True, but EVs are often quieter inside, too, depending on how much road noise you get.

Yeah, that's just terrible. We shouldn't be doing that in Car Chat. :nono:

:D :D "B-word"=BUICK!!!


:D

I just added an arcticle to my last post.......though it's not really a new article. I don't know if you saw it. It described the noise that EVs are now required to make at low speeds for pedestrians. I'll re-post it here.

https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/16/...estrian-safety

What's the difference between a blind person and a person walking while constantly looking at his phone?

If a person has his or her head down, looking a a phone, and hears a noise nearby, he or she can raise their head and see where that noise (or car) is coming from. That ability is greatly reduced with a blind person, though they can often tell what direction a noise is coming from.....sometimes, in blind people, their hearing is quite acute to compensate from their vision loss. And, if they have a Seeing-Eye Dog, those dogs are trained to spot danger and halt their Master.

The answer is both are blind. The difference is blind people actually pays attention to their surroundings and they usually have a walking guide dog.

This is something I've done a fair amount of research into because I too was interested in it. Quietness is one of the most important attributes to me in a car.

dB readings only tell you so much. dB readings measure intensity of sound, but frequency matters a lot too. There are also different weightings of dB readings, dBA, etc. It also varies dramatically based on the sound meter, and the road surface, other traffic around, etc.

For instance, I have a dB meter and it reads 58 dB in my LS at 70 MPH on a highway. Does that mean its quieter than a Navigator? Not necessarily.

Having driven all of these cars multiple times, and myself driving what is referred to as one of the quietest cars made I can tell you, nowadays all of these cars are pretty much as equally quiet. An S Class doesn't feel quieter than my LS, nor does a Navigator...no louder either.

The dB reading I have is lower than what C&D published for the Navigator, that was the point of what I said. the dB reading doesn't tell you definitively which car will feel quieter inside, and my experience having driven all of these cars they're all very similar in regards to interior noise. The Navigator is very quiet, but coming from a very quiet car and having owned and driven many other very quiet cars, it didnt strike me as unusually quiet, or any quieter than what I drive every day.

Oh its very quiet, my point is they're all very quiet. Trim level isn't going to impact interior noise figures. The point is a dB reading isn't going to definitively tell you what car is going to feel quieter when you drive or ride in it. One car might seem quieter or louder even to other people depending on the frequency range of their hearing.

I've driven the Navigator, Continental, MKZ and MKC. The only one I would comment as being impressively quiet is the Navigator, so I wouldn't say that as a brand at all.

At one time I would have said it was Lexus, but not today. As far as Buick, the Lacrosse is quiet, the Enclave is pretty quiet but not extraordinarily so. Modern Volvos are very quiet.

Those differences are also attributable to the road surface, the person or people in the car, the time of day, the temperature outside, weather, model and brand of tires, etc. If you drive around and use a dB meter (which I've done) you'll see how easily it can me impacted by several dB. Thats my point, you cant use a few dB between cars or tests as proof one car is quieter, its a measure that is near impossible to reliably take the same way and under the same set of variables every time.

There is nothing in the Navigator's literature that would suggest the Reserve would have more sound deadening than the lower trim. Why wouldnt they market that as they do in other vehicles?

Even with the Lacrosse, which is indeed quiet, road surface can make a difference. You will definitely hear more tire-noise on porous/grainy asphalt or concrete....but, on traditional smooth asphalt, it is like a rolling tomb. You can hear some faint noise from the DI injection underhood when accelerating. I doubt if it equals the LS460 or Mercedes S550 in quietness, though....but you're talking 2-3 times the price.

The Verano, BTW, was also surprisingly quiet (its roof alone had five anti-noise layers in it, in addition to triple-sealed doors, double-paned glass, and special trunk insulation...but the 18" 45-series tires bumped and thumped over road imperfections, especially in the winter when the shock fluid was cold and the tire-rubber more stiff, and the Ecotec four made more noise than the Lacrosse's V6 when accelerating. Trump (before he ran for President), actually did Verano promotions extolling its quietness and how much he liked the car. I loved mine, even with its faults (and even with the Ecotec's oil consumption LOL):D....it was the best-driving compact car I ever owned.

You can certainly challenge the results and dispute them if that is what you want. For all we know, Car & Driver could be using the exact same roads for the test which is likely a very good possibility. Motorweek seems to use the same test track, so does CR with theirs. That being said, they measure the DB reading at the drivers ear height. Its nice to see Car & Driver as well as Motor Trend post interior decibel data which is difficult to find. This is published data which is nice to see, Car and Driver also publishes the weather data for the test and which track the test takes place. Other data such as tires and other things are reported. Most tests are done at test track CPG, whatever that means. They also do three test measurements.

For what its worth, from Car & Driver at 70MPH:

2013 Lexus LS600h 64DB
2018 Lincoln Navigator Reserve 66 DB
2013 Lexus 460 F-Sport 66DB
2019 Lexus LS500 F sport 66 DB
2019 Toyota Avalon Hybrid 67DB
2018 Buick LaCrosse 68DB
2019 Toyota Avalon 68DB
2019 Lexus ES300h 70DB

Was that on the gas engine or the electric? :uh: Or don't you know? With the electrics, you will probably hear less noise from under the hood, and more from other sources.

I sampled a new 2019 Avalon last week (base XLE model) with the easier-riding 17" 55-series tires, and, to my ears, it seemed almost as quiet as the Lacrosse's 18" 50-series...perhaps just a hair noisier. I will seriously consider an Avalon XLE, even with its cave-entrance grille and ski-ramp dash, if Mary Barra and her cronies won't make new Lacrosses available in the future.

No idea. I didn't read the review. I just looked at the test data for reference.

I'm not disputing their findings, I'm cautioning against the conclusions you're drawing from those findings. Within 1-3 dB you're not likely going to be able to tell the difference between the two cars, and one with the higher dB reading may even seem quieter depending on what frequency certain sounds are made at. Even on the same roads, temps have an impact, humidity has an impact, wind speed. Theres also the X factor of how quiet a vehicle is on an empty test track and how quiet it is out in traffic with ambient noise, etc. Thats when you see a real benefit from laminated glass for instance.

So, don't expect a car that reads 64dB to feel quieter than one at 66 dB. Thats my point.

Any car under 70 dB is very quiet.

I thought you said the Reserve was 64 dB?

At speed in a hybrid the gas engine is always running. You won't be on electric power at 70MPH.

:rolleyes:

You will hear differences in road surface in any car. LS and S Class are no different. When you change road surfaces the pitch of the road sound changes, and coarser pavement is of course louder than smoother pavement. Thats something that improves a lot as you go up the chain. ES vs GS vs LS for instance, the isolation from road surface noise is a big differentiator.