Sulu

It is not the new TNGA platform that gives the new Corolla less headroom than the previous model; it is the styling of the new model and -- as was said -- the driver's seat does not seem to go as low as in the previous model.

The new, stiffer TNGA platform is not just a marketing ploy; it brings great advantages. A stiffer platform that has less tendency to bend and twist offers greater crashworthiness. It also helps in ride and handling, and is why all new TNGA cars, including the current-generation Prius and Camry have better handling and still offer a nice ride.

There is one bad feature of the new Toyota and Lexus models that I believe is influenced by TNGA, because it seems to be consistent across the different (FWD) platforms. In the TNGA-C under the Corolla, C-HR and UX, and the TNGA-K under the Camry and ES, the cargo area seems smaller than previous models and smaller than competitors. The cargo floor is high, leading to a shallow trunk in the sedans and high liftover on the hatchbacks. I don't know if this is to increase the strength of the platform or if the higher floor is to allow for future underfloor features (AWD or larger hybrid battery, perhaps)?


What??? What are you trying to say? What do you mean?

mmarshall

I was referring to modular-adjustable-platforms, which form at least part of the basis of TNGA. It simplifies the amount of work and cost needed to design new vehicles.

Toys4RJill

My criticism of the TNGA is not limited to the Corolla. There are things about the newer Toyota designs that I have not been liking. It's mostly in the details and the nuances of each model. I have been finding more things to be critical of than in the past. I am really unsure if I like the direction Toyota is going with their new models

SW17LS

Your criticisms are misdirected. The "TNGA platform" does not cause the issues you have with space, headroom, powertrains, designs, switchgear, etc. The TNGA platform is just a basic structure from which different vehicles are designed. Toyota is making stylistic and packaging differences that are causing your concerns, but there's nothing about the TNGA platform itself that causes them to make those choices. They're building lower, swooped cars because they look good at the expense of space, its really that simple.

As a platform the benefits of the TNGA vs the older platforms is undeniable. All you have to do is drive a previous gen Camry and the current Camry and the benefits of the new platform shine through the ride, drive, feel, solidity, etc. I haven't driven a new Corolla but I'm sure its the same way.

To make it clearer, you're blaming the fact that you dont like the layout of a new house on the type of foundation the builder uses and the type of wall sheathing material they use. Thats not the issue, its the way the architect laid out the house.

Toys4RJill

I agree. It is definitely a measure put in place to simplify the costs of designing new models. From what I have read, the designs are scale-able so that it makes things to design. Toyota has said, most new vehicles will be based on TNGA, not all so it will interesting to see which ones will not be. From what I have seen, I am not in love with the new designs. My parents new Avalon is on the TNGA platform, there are things I like about the new Avalon, and some that I don't. The issues I have lately I never did feel of these issues in the past with Toyota. There was a time where Toyota was very proud to promote that they made certain vehicles for certain regions (Land Cruiser vs Sequoia or Tacoma vs Hilux or Avalon US only. or Matrix US only, etc etc)...I guess they will go away from that.

SW17LS

The point is your issues are not coming from the TNGA platform itself, its the shifting design language and aesthetic by Toyota.

Toys4RJill

Actually, the TNGA platform is about building from common platforms using common parts. The platform is shared across multiple models. There are certain things I simply do not like about the new TNGA models. You may think they are not coming from the TNGA platform, and that is fine. Toyota has standardized a lot of parts among all of their TNGA models, these new parts I simply do not like.

You need to dig deeper into the TNGA info. I hope this does not turn into a long debate. But, in the past, there was an engineer for whatever platform/model was being designed for whatever part of the world, there was once 100 different platforms, now it has all be cost structured to the one new TNGA platform. American market cars were always designed a bit larger, now its all streamlined and my complaint of the new Corolla sizing is in IMO based on this. The Matrix we are looking to replace was larger than other market Corolla wagons at the time. Now, the new Corolla hatch has shrunk just enough to make it hard to driver for my husband, we are getting the same design as those in other markets where people are not as large. TNGA platformed cars are now streamline to have 5 seat height positions and they call it a kit part, before it was custom to each design. These are my concerns, I have no issues with platform strength and the notion of torsional rigidity is cliche in that Toyota (like all automarkers) claim better torsional rigidity for every new generation of models, so its not just TNGA

SW17LS

They have always shared platforms across multiple models, they just haven't named the platform or marketed the platform like this before. All of the FWD Toyota vehicles always have shared a basic global platform. Corolla is related to Camry and Prius etc so on and so forth. The platform itself is not what's causing design issues you don't care for, they can put cars of any size on the platform for instance, they are simply choosing to go in a different style and feel direction coinciding with beginning to use the platform.

My point is, the TNGA platform does not necessitate their downsizing of vehicle sizes. They're making a choice to do that.

Like I said before, thats not really true. They have ALWAYS shared platforms all over the place. Even in different parts of the world. For instance the Land Cruiser platform is the same basic platform as the Tundra and Sequoia. You could call them the same "platform". The LC Prado is the same "platform" as the GX, the 4 Runner, the FJ Cruiser. They're just marketing this new platform by giving it a name.

The sharing of this platform isn't causing the vehicles to be smaller feeling, its their design choices that are doing that. Each vehicle still has an engineer and designer that works on that vehicle but may not work on other products that use the TNGA platform.

Of course, torsional rigidity will always improve with a new model as technology improves. Its not a cliche, its the single most important aspect of how a car feels to drive. Its an asset of this new platform and they're pointing that out in their marketing which makes total sense.

Toys4RJill

. We will just have to disagree. It’s not worth going on and on about it. I will be interested to see what some others think about it.

SW17LS

Some people think the world is flat too

Sulu

What problems do you have with the Avalon? What problems do you have with the Corolla Hatchback? What problems do you have with the Corolla sedan?

Do you have the exact same problems with each of these models? (In the interests of full disclosure, the Corolla Hatchback and sedan share the same compact TNGA-C platform while the Avalon is on the larger, mid-size TNGA-K platform.)

Have you sat in the crossover C-HR or UX models? If you have, do you have the exact same problems in these models as you do with the Corolla models? Despite the fact that the Corolla is a sedan, and the C-HR and UX are both crossovers, they are all share the same compact TNGA-C platform.

If you have found the exact same problem in all of these vehicles (including the 2 crossovers), the TNGA platform may be to blame. If you did not find the same problems in these different models, then the problems are due to the style of the vehicle.

A modern vehicle platform consists of the greasy bits upon which any of a number of unique "top hats" (to use Alan Mulally's term) may be placed. A top hat, differentiated from other top hats by unique styling, is what makes one vehicle a sedan and another a crossover. A vehicle platform is invisible to everyone except the automotive engineers who design the vehicle.

SW17LS

And to the rest of us, even if we saw the underpinnings of two vehicles on the same platform side by side (certainly a global platform) we wouldnt even be able to tell they're the same platform.

Toys4RJill

It seem with the new TNGA sedans, the direction is that the interiors are getting tighter and the cars are getting lower across the board. For example, the measurements of my Matrix has an interior headroom of 1029 mm while my Corolla has 973 mm while my parents Avalon has 950 mm. The new 2020 Corolla reduces the interior headroom to 965 mm.To me it was not a concern but my husband point this out, he cannot sit with the seat sitting low and without his head touching the sunroof cover. This is not an issue with either of out cars. Add in the fact that he cannot move the knew area without rubbing the lower part of the steering wheel, this is not an issue in either of our existing cars for him.The steering column now does not seem to articulate as much as it once did either up or down. You may think that TNGA is just the chassis, but that is not fully the case, the hip points, designs, seat heights are not streamlined to have just 5 settings whereas in the past, this was not the case. Toyota TNGA also shares more parts, I am not a fan the of the new Toyota shifters used on the Avalon/Corolla/Hatch/Rav4. Not a fan of the cruise control buttons. Not a fan of the power window switches, all of these would relatively minor but the interior space is probably a deal breaker IMO. The new software on my parents Avalon feels laggy, and Apple Car Play does not feel properly finished. I could probably live with the interior and these complaints as I am quite small, but my husband is not as thrilled, so I am just airing some of them out.

I am also not thrilled Toyota has carryover engines in the Corolla, then should of used the new TNGA powertrains as they called for the whole Corolla line up. I have no concerns about the handling, ride and dynamics of the TNGA Corolla hatch, ES, LS I have test driven. My parents Avalon rides quite well as well.

Perhaps my criticism should be directed towards the just TNGA sedans. I would have to revisit the CHR or UX as per the interior space, the RAV4 seems quite roomy, and I do like the design.

This is not a bash of Toyota TNGA, its a critique. For the first time in a long long time, I look at the new TNGA Toyota models that are being released and I just question the value, and the direction Toyota is going.

SW17LS

Again...nothing that you are describing has anything to do with the TNGA platform. The platform has nothing to do with headroom, interior volume, the adjustability of the steering column. Shifters, shared parts, cruise control buttons...again nothing to do with the platform. TNGA is IN FACT just the chassis. That is by definition what it is. Hip points, designs, seat heights have NOTHING to do with the chassis. How can they have a crossover that sits high and a sedan that sits low on the same global platform if it did?

No...it should be directed at the Toyota design team that is designing the sedans...it has nothing to do with the platform.

Toys4RJill

This might be my last response to you. I do not understand what your issue is. TNGA is not just the chassis. Its everything. Everything has been streamlined, so to illustrate this, now there are 5 settings for interior design when it comes to seat height and hip points. Now Toyota can use production demand vs batch demand when comes to building their cars, instead of making all Avalon models in one hour, they can mold a Avalon bumper, then a Camry bumper, back to a Avalon bumper. Assembly line components are no longer fixed to the manufacturing floor, now components that are used to build cars can now be moved along to different parts of the manufacturing facility. A new TNGA plant is now more flexible than ever, the new Mississippi Corolla plants could in theory build up to 8 different models with minimal reconfiguration, this was not the case when Toyota was building the outgoing Corolla in Canada. I really suggest you look at TNGA from a broader perspective and read up on it, it a massive cost cutting measure designed to streamline everything Toyota makes. Its not just the chassis. TNGA is almost like a pre-determined kit that can be applied to different models of vehicles based on their size and function. In the past, Toyota was just-in-time, this is now changed, its now right-now.

Here is some information from Motortrends research on TNGA:

"All the key interior components -- steering wheels, shifters, pedals (and air bags) -- will be dictated by five standardized seat heights. Select a seat height and the car's mission (is it a sedan or a crossover, for instance) and this leads to a highly pruned decision tree of accompanying components (say, four shifters or five seat frames). Once disguised by unique interiors, this massive simplification becomes invisible. Now project that thinking to everything else in the car. "

I really hope, if anything, you take the above info from MT and expand on your idea that TNGA is just the chassis.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/toyo...-car-building/