Nissan design chief confirms new Z is underway
09-13-18, 11:27 AM
#31
Its true. Its annoying when companies don't respect the nameplate, legacy or history for a car. Instead - they prefer to use the name to make another run-of-the-mill SUV.
While I know the X3 M and X4 M isn't the same, I do feel like BMW is using the M name plate as a marketing gimmick for their SUVs now. The X5 M and X6 M I give it a pass because they are a more premium SUV. But a X3 M? That's just gimmicky and getting too much. We don't need to M every effing car. It takes away the exclusivity if every model has a M.
While I know the X3 M and X4 M isn't the same, I do feel like BMW is using the M name plate as a marketing gimmick for their SUVs now. The X5 M and X6 M I give it a pass because they are a more premium SUV. But a X3 M? That's just gimmicky and getting too much. We don't need to M every effing car. It takes away the exclusivity if every model has a M.
Last edited by Hoovey689; 09-13-18 at 11:33 AM.
09-13-18, 12:08 PM
#32
Lexus Test Driver
If Lexus did the same thing as BMW, Lexus would be giving us IS-F, RC-F, LC-F, LS-F, RX-F, NX-F, UX-F, ES-F and etc...
09-13-18, 12:11 PM
#33
I wouldn't compare the F-Sport to what BMW is doing with the M moniker. The F-Sport is more like the "M-Sport Appearance package". I'm directing my attention to how BMW is making every car have an "M" model. I just think X3 M and X4 M feels a bit useless.
If Lexus did the same thing as BMW, Lexus would be giving us IS-F, RC-F, LC-F, LS-F, RX-F, NX-F, UX-F, ES-F and etc...
If Lexus did the same thing as BMW, Lexus would be giving us IS-F, RC-F, LC-F, LS-F, RX-F, NX-F, UX-F, ES-F and etc...
In the end, the reason for filling gaps with more performance models or niches is money driven.
09-13-18, 12:20 PM
#34
Good. Please don't put a 4 cylinder in it or make it a hybrid though.
I recently saw a G60 coupe and thought it was really nice looking, read a positive review of the 400hp version and thought if they don't do another Z the G is at least there and much better then the current 370Z. Wonder if anyone has chosen the 300hp version and had it tuned to 400hp yet, it has to be pretty cheap to do that since they both use the same hardware, just different tunes.
I recently saw a G60 coupe and thought it was really nice looking, read a positive review of the 400hp version and thought if they don't do another Z the G is at least there and much better then the current 370Z. Wonder if anyone has chosen the 300hp version and had it tuned to 400hp yet, it has to be pretty cheap to do that since they both use the same hardware, just different tunes.
09-14-18, 08:41 PM
#35
Hey Hoovey, sorry to have to tell you the truth, but this statement is somewhat false.
Although Alfonso Albaisa has a lot of clout and tenure at Nissan, he is somewhat a liar right now.
The Nissan design department and their sub-brand divisions, are held by a leash via a ruthless chairman, who has stifled their ability to produce millions of hours of design work into buyable vehicles.
Nissan designers are some of the most jobless people, based on the fact almost none of their internal styling proposals, design studies, and show concepts ever go into production, if the nameplate isn't for a FWD CUV or FWD family car.
I had mentioned many months ago, that the Z35 programme was cancelled in January 2018 by the executive board and they would keep it in production through 2021, then discontinue it.
A final design was approved over 18 months ago, then development started suffering by the second half of 2017 and then it was ultimately cancelled.
Infiniti's next generation EV platform complicated things, in not favouring RWD originally. The CV37 Infiniti Q60 platform is apparently outdated, because the V35 Skyline (G35) originally debuted it in 2001 and the front-midship platform dates back to 1994 in origination.
The next Q60 styling gets signed off next year for MY2023 and a CV37 (Q60) facelift for MY 2020. Next Q50 is done.There was no business case to make a bespoke platform for the Z35, as the next GTR is still not planned until around 2024 or 2025 and too expensive regardless. The R36 is in development though.
Group design director Alfonso Albaisa has been understandably disappointed, that the Z35 design work approved under his predecessor Shiro Nakamura roughly 2 years ago, was canned, as the design itself was beautiful and looked nothing like the cliche renderings being passed around. It rivaled the original Z of 1969 and was hot.
It was going to use the CV37 turbo VR30DDTT powerplant and architecture, but in the end it was deemed unfavourable and unprofitable for silly reasons.
Anyway, Albaisa lied in January after that cancellation and all automotive media have been doing so since then. Anything published after January 20, 2018 about a 400Z is a straight up lie or old news from a rumour mill. He is trying to save face and keep up morale, as product planners try to re-study things.
What is going to happen, is the Z34 370Z will see some changes (2020) to keep it alive and a new model might be studied again. Do not expect a redesigned Z in less than 5 years, as Nissan product planners will likely have to hit reset and start over.
The GT-R will get one final facelift (2021) and R36 will arrive circa 2024. Currently they are in early development of it, so it is far from ready.
Although Alfonso Albaisa has a lot of clout and tenure at Nissan, he is somewhat a liar right now.
The Nissan design department and their sub-brand divisions, are held by a leash via a ruthless chairman, who has stifled their ability to produce millions of hours of design work into buyable vehicles.
Nissan designers are some of the most jobless people, based on the fact almost none of their internal styling proposals, design studies, and show concepts ever go into production, if the nameplate isn't for a FWD CUV or FWD family car.
I had mentioned many months ago, that the Z35 programme was cancelled in January 2018 by the executive board and they would keep it in production through 2021, then discontinue it.
A final design was approved over 18 months ago, then development started suffering by the second half of 2017 and then it was ultimately cancelled.
Infiniti's next generation EV platform complicated things, in not favouring RWD originally. The CV37 Infiniti Q60 platform is apparently outdated, because the V35 Skyline (G35) originally debuted it in 2001 and the front-midship platform dates back to 1994 in origination.
The next Q60 styling gets signed off next year for MY2023 and a CV37 (Q60) facelift for MY 2020. Next Q50 is done.There was no business case to make a bespoke platform for the Z35, as the next GTR is still not planned until around 2024 or 2025 and too expensive regardless. The R36 is in development though.
Group design director Alfonso Albaisa has been understandably disappointed, that the Z35 design work approved under his predecessor Shiro Nakamura roughly 2 years ago, was canned, as the design itself was beautiful and looked nothing like the cliche renderings being passed around. It rivaled the original Z of 1969 and was hot.
It was going to use the CV37 turbo VR30DDTT powerplant and architecture, but in the end it was deemed unfavourable and unprofitable for silly reasons.
Anyway, Albaisa lied in January after that cancellation and all automotive media have been doing so since then. Anything published after January 20, 2018 about a 400Z is a straight up lie or old news from a rumour mill. He is trying to save face and keep up morale, as product planners try to re-study things.
What is going to happen, is the Z34 370Z will see some changes (2020) to keep it alive and a new model might be studied again. Do not expect a redesigned Z in less than 5 years, as Nissan product planners will likely have to hit reset and start over.
The GT-R will get one final facelift (2021) and R36 will arrive circa 2024. Currently they are in early development of it, so it is far from ready.
09-14-18, 10:02 PM
#36
Lexus Test Driver
Definitely the filling gaps are definitely a dive at grabbing cash. Its using the M badge to market and make people buy something that is utterly pointless (in my opinion). I'm just not 100% sold on a X3 M and X4 M. For the X5/X6 M I sort of get it because its their "high-end" SUVs. But a M SUV on their low-end SUV is quite strange.
If the X3/X4 M is priced anything like their sedan and coupe cousins, we are looking at nearly a 80K X3. That's not only stupid - its insane.
09-15-18, 01:21 AM
#37
Ahh. No worries.
Definitely the filling gaps are definitely a dive at grabbing cash. Its using the M badge to market and make people buy something that is utterly pointless (in my opinion). I'm just not 100% sold on a X3 M and X4 M. For the X5/X6 M I sort of get it because its their "high-end" SUVs. But a M SUV on their low-end SUV is quite strange.
If the X3/X4 M is priced anything like their sedan and coupe cousins, we are looking at nearly a 80K X3. That's not only stupid - its insane.
Definitely the filling gaps are definitely a dive at grabbing cash. Its using the M badge to market and make people buy something that is utterly pointless (in my opinion). I'm just not 100% sold on a X3 M and X4 M. For the X5/X6 M I sort of get it because its their "high-end" SUVs. But a M SUV on their low-end SUV is quite strange.
If the X3/X4 M is priced anything like their sedan and coupe cousins, we are looking at nearly a 80K X3. That's not only stupid - its insane.
09-15-18, 08:50 AM
#38
Lexus Test Driver
So, to me, a X3 M is basically a more spacious and crappier handling M3.
And its not surprising its gonna be a monster - they are literally dropping the M3 engine into it. They are also giving it a "competition package" too. You see what I mean - a X3 M Competition Package? They think people are going to track these things? If someone is gonna track a M, it would probably be the M2 Comp or M3 Comp. Its such a money grab from BMW. I hate when car companies do this. Its just milking the M and the Comp Pack name.
But yeah - sorry for going off topic. I hope the Z doesn't become a money grab pit too.
Last edited by BippuLexus; 09-15-18 at 08:58 AM.
09-17-18, 11:16 AM
#39
You sure about that? I was told 2020 will be the release of the re-designed Q50. They just did a refresh for 2018 and the car came out in 2013. They can't wait 10+ years for a next Gen Q50 that's way too long in the tooth. Especially with all the complaints about not having features lower model cars have like Heads up display, cooled seats and Android/Apple Car play etc. They can't afford to wait that long.
09-17-18, 02:59 PM
#42
Lexus Test Driver
You sure about that? I was told 2020 will be the release of the re-designed Q50. They just did a refresh for 2018 and the car came out in 2013. They can't wait 10+ years for a next Gen Q50 that's way too long in the tooth. Especially with all the complaints about not having features lower model cars have like Heads up display, cooled seats and Android/Apple Car play etc. They can't afford to wait that long.
With that said - 2022 for the Q50 actually makes perfect sense. Here are the reasons:
Infiniti design and boss was quoted saying the company will start its change with a new platform (EV/hybrid) and new infotainment system for the 2021 model year. They were saying the first car to get it will be out for the 2021 model year. So if the first car to get it comes out in 2020 for the 2021 year, what would it be? It'll likely be the oldest car they have on the model line that needs the change. That would be the Q70/QX80. Also another clue - they are also the flagship. This makes the most sense. To change their oldest models that need change (and also the flagship) - this allows them to better market the company's shift to a EV/Hybrid model line. The flagship models will carry the torch - like they always been for car companies.
They will want the Q70/QX80, the flagship, to show off their new tech and platform before trickle downing it to the Q50. They won't want an entry-level car to show off their tech.
Also - the car came out in 2013 for the 2014 model year. Infiniti does a 8 year life cycle - on average. Meaning - the Q50 likely last model will be 2021 and 2022 will be the new gen. This also make sense because it'll be 4 years of pre-refresh models and 4 years of refresh models.
2014-2017 pre-refresh
2018-2021 refresh
4 years each. 8 year total life cycle.
Essentially - they won't be waiting 10 years. They will be waiting 8 years for the next gen Q50.
The complaints against the Infiniti Q50 is null and pointless. It hasn't hurt sales at all.
Infiniti Q50 sales are doing extremely well and they have hot hot incentives for pushing out these cars. Ever since the car launched for the 2014 model year, it started off with 36K sales per year and then it averaged 40K+ sales per year. That's extremely good considering its a performance sedan (on the larger side) fighting for market share in a SUV market.
HUD, Cooled seats and Apple Car Play are not big enough issues for people that want to buy an Infiniti. Rarely people that bought a Q50 Silver Sport or Red Sport complains about how there is no HUD, Cool Seats and Apple Car Play. Majority of them are tuners and care about the car's performance. This is how Infiniti keeps cost low and incentives high to give you are car with 400HP (underrated - probably like 430BHP) for less than 50K OTD. If you want those numbers from a BMW/MB with all those nice features, you are looking at pass 60K.
09-17-18, 03:28 PM
#43
Carmaker1 is probably most likely 99% correct. Not sure where he gets his info from but he does a lot of Lexus insider info and he posts them on Lexus Enthusiasts.
With that said - 2022 for the Q50 actually makes perfect sense. Here are the reasons:
Infiniti design and boss was quoted saying the company will start its change with a new platform (EV/hybrid) and new infotainment system for the 2021 model year. They were saying the first car to get it will be out for the 2021 model year. So if the first car to get it comes out in 2020 for the 2021 year, what would it be? It'll likely be the oldest car they have on the model line that needs the change. That would be the Q70/QX80. Also another clue - they are also the flagship. This makes the most sense. To change their oldest models that need change (and also the flagship) - this allows them to better market the company's shift to a EV/Hybrid model line. The flagship models will carry the torch - like they always been for car companies.
They will want the Q70/QX80, the flagship, to show off their new tech and platform before trickle downing it to the Q50. They won't want an entry-level car to show off their tech.
Also - the car came out in 2013 for the 2014 model year. Infiniti does a 8 year life cycle - on average. Meaning - the Q50 likely last model will be 2021 and 2022 will be the new gen. This also make sense because it'll be 4 years of pre-refresh models and 4 years of refresh models.
2014-2017 pre-refresh
2018-2021 refresh
4 years each. 8 year total life cycle.
Essentially - they won't be waiting 10 years. They will be waiting 8 years for the next gen Q50.
The complaints against the Infiniti Q50 is null and pointless. It hasn't hurt sales at all.
Infiniti Q50 sales are doing extremely well and they have hot hot incentives for pushing out these cars. Ever since the car launched for the 2014 model year, it started off with 36K sales per year and then it averaged 40K+ sales per year. That's extremely good considering its a performance sedan (on the larger side) fighting for market share in a SUV market.
HUD, Cooled seats and Apple Car Play are not big enough issues for people that want to buy an Infiniti. Rarely people that bought a Q50 Silver Sport or Red Sport complains about how there is no HUD, Cool Seats and Apple Car Play. Majority of them are tuners and care about the car's performance. This is how Infiniti keeps cost low and incentives high to give you are car with 400HP (underrated - probably like 430BHP) for less than 50K OTD. If you want those numbers from a BMW/MB with all those nice features, you are looking at pass 60K.
With that said - 2022 for the Q50 actually makes perfect sense. Here are the reasons:
Infiniti design and boss was quoted saying the company will start its change with a new platform (EV/hybrid) and new infotainment system for the 2021 model year. They were saying the first car to get it will be out for the 2021 model year. So if the first car to get it comes out in 2020 for the 2021 year, what would it be? It'll likely be the oldest car they have on the model line that needs the change. That would be the Q70/QX80. Also another clue - they are also the flagship. This makes the most sense. To change their oldest models that need change (and also the flagship) - this allows them to better market the company's shift to a EV/Hybrid model line. The flagship models will carry the torch - like they always been for car companies.
They will want the Q70/QX80, the flagship, to show off their new tech and platform before trickle downing it to the Q50. They won't want an entry-level car to show off their tech.
Also - the car came out in 2013 for the 2014 model year. Infiniti does a 8 year life cycle - on average. Meaning - the Q50 likely last model will be 2021 and 2022 will be the new gen. This also make sense because it'll be 4 years of pre-refresh models and 4 years of refresh models.
2014-2017 pre-refresh
2018-2021 refresh
4 years each. 8 year total life cycle.
Essentially - they won't be waiting 10 years. They will be waiting 8 years for the next gen Q50.
The complaints against the Infiniti Q50 is null and pointless. It hasn't hurt sales at all.
Infiniti Q50 sales are doing extremely well and they have hot hot incentives for pushing out these cars. Ever since the car launched for the 2014 model year, it started off with 36K sales per year and then it averaged 40K+ sales per year. That's extremely good considering its a performance sedan (on the larger side) fighting for market share in a SUV market.
HUD, Cooled seats and Apple Car Play are not big enough issues for people that want to buy an Infiniti. Rarely people that bought a Q50 Silver Sport or Red Sport complains about how there is no HUD, Cool Seats and Apple Car Play. Majority of them are tuners and care about the car's performance. This is how Infiniti keeps cost low and incentives high to give you are car with 400HP (underrated - probably like 430BHP) for less than 50K OTD. If you want those numbers from a BMW/MB with all those nice features, you are looking at pass 60K.
09-17-18, 04:33 PM
#44
Lexus Test Driver
Thanks for that breakdown. I still think those years are off but we'll see. I have a Redsport myself, and on the forums(50 & 60) the biggest complaints are Lack of LSD(Fixed now by AMS who have an aftermarket one) , Slow Shifting Transmission, Folding Mirrors, Intouch, and Cooled seats. They desperately need a better transmission with the Engine. The Engine is a work of art but it doesn't match the tranny. A better transmission with LSD would easily put this car in the 4.1 0-60 range as it is seriously underrated number wise. The AWD version has been V boxed at 4.2/4.3 stock from some members. The platform is just a few tweeks from being a serious competitor performance wise but they really need to overhaul the transmission and chasis. I could live without HUD and cooled seats.
I explore the forums there from time to time - I think LSD situation can be fixed with better stickier tires. The stock dunlops are just horrible tires.
Yes - I agree - the transmission on the Infiniti Q50 Red Sport does not match the engine. As a car enthusiast, I wish it was a DCT 7 speed. But, but, a lot of people think and want the Red Sport to be a M3 fighter. I think - Infiniti purposely made the Red Sport this way to create room for the rumored Black Sport which is the real M3/AMG competitor.
Folding mirrors - yeah. I see this. +1 for sure. Hands down agree. I wish my Lexus has folding mirrors too. This has just more to do with Japanese car companies and not offering nicer technology. Not really Infiniti is fault.
Intouch/infotainment system is definitely a big complaint from reviewers and people alike. The way I see it is - its not that bad. I have actually test drove a few recently to help my cousin out because he just graduated college this summer and got a tech job. So hes looking to want a fast car and he doesn't know much about cars. From my experience - the bottom screen could be faster and I wish the bottom screen matches the top screen. I think its an okay system at best because I have definitely used worst infotainment systems before (2015-2018 MB CClass infotainment is trash. The new MBUX is better.)
Quick question for you though: Since you got an Infiniti Q Red Sport, may I ask you how much you purchase your vehicle for out the door? If you don't mind me asking because I'm trying to see so I can help my cousin find a good deal because he seems to like Infiniti.
09-17-18, 04:44 PM
#45
No worries. Obviously we will just have to see because no one really knows but Infiniti (and Nissan). But I personally think Carmaker1 and these numbers are right because of just one glaring point. The main point that convinced me that Infiniti Q70 will be the first car to get the change. This point is - the Infiniti Q70 hasn't changed since 2011. The generation started out as an Infiniti M, changed to the Q70 with a minor update in 2014 and stayed the same till now. While I think the Infiniti Q70 is doing okay right now, it won't do okay if they don't change it by 2020 because the car would be 10 years old by then. To be honest - the Infiniti Q70 should have changed last year for the 2018 model year to match the 8 year timeline. But it didn't.
I explore the forums there from time to time - I think LSD situation can be fixed with better stickier tires. The stock dunlops are just horrible tires.
Yes - I agree - the transmission on the Infiniti Q50 Red Sport does not match the engine. As a car enthusiast, I wish it was a DCT 7 speed. But, but, a lot of people think and want the Red Sport to be a M3 fighter. I think - Infiniti purposely made the Red Sport this way to create room for the rumored Black Sport which is the real M3/AMG competitor.
Folding mirrors - yeah. I see this. +1 for sure. Hands down agree. I wish my Lexus has folding mirrors too. This has just more to do with Japanese car companies and not offering nicer technology. Not really Infiniti is fault.
Intouch/infotainment system is definitely a big complaint from reviewers and people alike. The way I see it is - its not that bad. I have actually test drove a few recently to help my cousin out because he just graduated college this summer and got a tech job. So hes looking to want a fast car and he doesn't know much about cars. From my experience - the bottom screen could be faster and I wish the bottom screen matches the top screen. I think its an okay system at best because I have definitely used worst infotainment systems before (2015-2018 MB CClass infotainment is trash. The new MBUX is better.)
Quick question for you though: Since you got an Infiniti Q Red Sport, may I ask you how much you purchase your vehicle for out the door? If you don't mind me asking because I'm trying to see so I can help my cousin find a good deal because he seems to like Infiniti.
I explore the forums there from time to time - I think LSD situation can be fixed with better stickier tires. The stock dunlops are just horrible tires.
Yes - I agree - the transmission on the Infiniti Q50 Red Sport does not match the engine. As a car enthusiast, I wish it was a DCT 7 speed. But, but, a lot of people think and want the Red Sport to be a M3 fighter. I think - Infiniti purposely made the Red Sport this way to create room for the rumored Black Sport which is the real M3/AMG competitor.
Folding mirrors - yeah. I see this. +1 for sure. Hands down agree. I wish my Lexus has folding mirrors too. This has just more to do with Japanese car companies and not offering nicer technology. Not really Infiniti is fault.
Intouch/infotainment system is definitely a big complaint from reviewers and people alike. The way I see it is - its not that bad. I have actually test drove a few recently to help my cousin out because he just graduated college this summer and got a tech job. So hes looking to want a fast car and he doesn't know much about cars. From my experience - the bottom screen could be faster and I wish the bottom screen matches the top screen. I think its an okay system at best because I have definitely used worst infotainment systems before (2015-2018 MB CClass infotainment is trash. The new MBUX is better.)
Quick question for you though: Since you got an Infiniti Q Red Sport, may I ask you how much you purchase your vehicle for out the door? If you don't mind me asking because I'm trying to see so I can help my cousin find a good deal because he seems to like Infiniti.
I actually leased my RS because this being a newer platform I wasn't ready to buy just in case there are issues. The serpentine belt issue has been popping up lately I actually just had mine re-aligned but other than that the car has been flawless. I also got mine without DAS and all that Tech Nanny crap. I don't need all that. I do have Navigation, illuminated door sills etc. MSRP was about 53,000 I ended up getting it for 44,500 and my monthly is $500. The lease deals with these are unbeatable. I was looking at an S4 and even an M3 and the prices was almost double for those cars. Yes I know the M3 is a different category but the S4 price cannot be justified especially with how the tunes are going so far. These cars tuned are pushing 500 Wheel HP now and the torque numbers are insane. No reason to get an S4 unless you are a brand ***** and like a bunch of tech.