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I have to say, I am trying to wrap my head around what you are saying. However, some of it does make sense from a logic POV. Your 71 mother is definitely a rarity as most people will not have the incomes to pay for mortgages in their retirement years. As for debt collectors, regardless of age or death, why would you want anyone to profit of your debt (if it is possible to avoid the debt to being with). Wouldn’t you want your children to enjoy all of what you have? Not some debt collector.
My mother isn't retired. 71 is not as "old" today as it once was. I know a lot of people that age and older that are still working. She works because she wants to, not because she has to. If she decides she no longer wants to, or cant, she can always get a reverse mortgage on her condo and she has the equity to do that.
As for my children, well my goal would be that by the time my wife and I are gone my children will be adults with careers, families and wealth of their own. Whatever they might get from us would just be a bonus. so no I'm really not worried about that.
Originally Posted by Johnhav430
I see what you are asking. I don't believe my aunt should have a mortgage at her age, in my mind, she's in the phase of her life where everything's paid off and as far as investments etc., it's conservative. Now to add more info, she plays the stock market. The problem is, as I see it, is the window to recover from a correction is shorter. I figured the sky was falling and I'm done, stick a fork in me, in early 2009. But at the same time, I have to keep working what to 2045? lol
60 is not old lol.
Call me responsible, but I do think it matters that one doesn't stiff debtors even after passing away. That's going beyond not leaving anything to charity or heirs and the IRS, another level if it's part of a master plan....
Who's talking about stiffing debtors? I'm not advocating that people run out and get swamped in credit card debt. I'm talking about not being worried about having mortgages and car loans when you die. If you die and you have a mortgage and a car loan, those things can be sold to pay off those debts. Thats one of the great things about leasing cars BTW, if you die the lease just ends. If I were to die my wife would just turn my Lexus into LFS and it'd be done.
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
i think you keep looking at this in terms of your own financial preferences and situation. some couldn't give a rats behind whether it's 1.9, 2.9. or 5.9. and since MOST high end luxury cars are leased, this is all moot, well not entirely because there's 'deals' and negotiating on leases too.
I decided to check out the local dealers to see if they were advertising any LS500 specials. None of them are, at least on their web sites.
My closest dealer is advertising 2.9%/60 months on the ES, IS, RX, NX, and GX. The other two dealers are only showing specials on the IS. I called but of course they want me to come in to discuss...
I decided to check out the local dealers to see if they were advertising any LS500 specials. None of them are, at least on their web sites.
My closest dealer is advertising 2.9%/60 months on the ES, IS, RX, NX, and GX. The other two dealers are only showing specials on the IS. I called but of course they want me to come in to discuss...
Odd, ES is 0%/72mo's in Chicago. LS is shown as 2.9%/60mo's, as well as the GS.
My mother isn't retired. 71 is not as "old" today as it once was. I know a lot of people that age and older that are still working. She works because she wants to, not because she has to. If she decides she no longer wants to, or cant, she can always get a reverse mortgage on her condo and she has the equity to do that.
As for my children, well my goal would be that by the time my wife and I are gone my children will be adults with careers, families and wealth of their own. Whatever they might get from us would just be a bonus. so no I'm really not worried about that.
60 is not old lol.
Who's talking about stiffing debtors? I'm not advocating that people run out and get swamped in credit card debt. I'm talking about not being worried about having mortgages and car loans when you die. If you die and you have a mortgage and a car loan, those things can be sold to pay off those debts. Thats one of the great things about leasing cars BTW, if you die the lease just ends. If I were to die my wife would just turn my Lexus into LFS and it'd be done.
Exactly.
I may be misinterpreting what you are saying, but as far as I know, if you were to die, your estate still owes the payments on your car lease. I'm not an expert by any means, but one would think you would take the remaining payments, multiply them by the number of mos. left, and your estate would have to pay prior to distributing the assets as you wish. At the same time, the financial co. should come knocking and retrieve the vehicle, so unless it's at the end of the lease, other things should happen.
I'm just being logical--this is a rental agreement on which I am making a good profit, why would your death release your estate from such an agreement? It's a rental contract. Since Toyota would get the car back, then they would not be able to auction the car AND collect rental payments, so it would stand to reason they auction the vehicle, and subtract that amount from the total of the rental payments remaining. That would be my estimation on how it works.
I may be misinterpreting what you are saying, but as far as I know, if you were to die, your estate still owes the payments on your car lease. I'm not an expert by any means, but one would think you would take the remaining payments, multiply them by the number of mos. left, and your estate would have to pay prior to distributing the assets as you wish. At the same time, the financial co. should come knocking and retrieve the vehicle, so unless it's at the end of the lease, other things should happen.
No, death is considered a default of the lease. So the vehicle has to be returned to Lexus if I were to die. Even if my wife wanted to keep it and keep making payments on it she couldn't, she would have to have the lease transferred to her or something like that. Technically they could come after "the estate" for any gap between what they sell the car for and what the lease payoff is, but I'm told at least LFS doesn't do that. Its all spelled out in the lease. Even if they did the way I have things set up they wouldn't get anywhere.
I'm just being logical--this is a rental agreement on which I am making a good profit, why would your death release your estate from such an agreement? It's a rental contract. Since Toyota would get the car back, then they would not be able to auction the car AND collect rental payments, so it would stand to reason they auction the vehicle, and subtract that amount from the total of the rental payments remaining. That would be my estimation on how it works.
Death releases a person from all kinds of rental contracts. How can you enforce an agreement when one of the parties to that agreement is dead?
Its actually quite hard for creditors to come after a spouse or heirs for outstanding debts. My car is only in my name, her car is only in her name for that reason. We don't share any credit cards, she's an authorized user on mine but not a joint account holder, so any balance upon my death she wouldn't be responsible for and vice versa. Her student loans are only in her name and not also in mine. Our home is owned as Tenants by the Entirety so no individual creditor can touch that. Investment properties are held in trusts. Everything is all set up with right of survivorship or beneficiaries, so upon the death of one of us everything passes to the other, or upon the death of both of us it passes to the person who we've chosen to take care of our children. Life insurance isn't part of an estate, so that just gets paid out to the surviving spouse. In short, there would be no probate, and no estate from which creditors can collect anything.
No, death is considered a default of the lease. So the vehicle has to be returned to Lexus if I were to die. Even if my wife wanted to keep it and keep making payments on it she couldn't, she would have to have the lease transferred to her or something like that. Technically they could come after "the estate" for any gap between what they sell the car for and what the lease payoff is, but I'm told at least LFS doesn't do that. Its all spelled out in the lease. Even if they did the way I have things set up they wouldn't get anywhere.
Death releases a person from all kinds of rental contracts. How can you enforce an agreement when one of the parties to that agreement is dead?
Its actually quite hard for creditors to come after a spouse or heirs for outstanding debts. My car is only in my name, her car is only in her name for that reason. We don't share any credit cards, she's an authorized user on mine but not a joint account holder, so any balance upon my death she wouldn't be responsible for and vice versa. Her student loans are only in her name and not also in mine. Our home is owned as Tenants by the Entirety so no individual creditor can touch that. Investment properties are held in trusts. Everything is all set up with right of survivorship or beneficiaries, so upon the death of one of us everything passes to the other, or upon the death of both of us it passes to the person who we've chosen to take care of our children. Life insurance isn't part of an estate, so that just gets paid out to the surviving spouse. In short, there would be no probate, and no estate from which creditors can collect anything.
I totally get that from a physical standpoint, the deceased is unavailable to be questioned, arrested, called, whatever....but the estate still has an executor etc. What would make sense is that Toyota gets their car back, of course, because the deceased was never going to keep it indefinitely anyway, but that future payments are still due, with some formula applied (likely not 100%, likely auction value of vehicle has something to do with it). Can Toyota get their money? If it's an estate with assets, I would think the answer is yes. Don't know from experience obviously. If the estate didn't have any assets? Then probably not. I think it comes down to the estate. But the death does set forth a termination, and then the termination is handled however it's handled. I'll never know, but just going by what is sensible. Otherwise, this would be a shaky arrangement, not just for older people but anyone. A young person can also face an untimely death...
I totally get that from a physical standpoint, the deceased is unavailable to be questioned, arrested, called, whatever....but the estate still has an executor etc. What would make sense is that Toyota gets their car back, of course, because the deceased was never going to keep it indefinitely anyway, but that future payments are still due, with some formula applied (likely not 100%, likely auction value of vehicle has something to do with it). Can Toyota get their money? If it's an estate with assets, I would think the answer is yes. Don't know from experience obviously. If the estate didn't have any assets? Then probably not. I think it comes down to the estate. But the death does set forth a termination, and then the termination is handled however it's handled. I'll never know, but just going by what is sensible. Otherwise, this would be a shaky arrangement, not just for older people but anyone. A young person can also face an untimely death...
The future payments are not due, the lease is defaulted. Your "estate" would technically be liable for any difference in the payoff vs the sale of the vehicle, as you would be if you turned it in early. However, like I said LFS doesn't collect that and even if they were to try to...there would be no money for them to collect.
Not an opinion, its a fact. I read my lease agreement this morning just to confirm I was correct. The death IS default, and termination of the lease agreement.
And like I said, if you have planned it right there is no "estate". No probate, no estate. No money for any creditor to get.
Odd, ES is 0%/72mo's in Chicago. LS is shown as 2.9%/60mo's, as well as the GS.
They could be doing something for the LS that is not posted on their site, for sure. My dealer has sold 5 LS500s in the past 3 weeks, which I think is pretty solid and may indeed indicate some sort of a sales special taking place.
Look at letter "f" "you die and there is no surviving co-lesee"
Section 29: As you can see you will owe any amount of the payoff over and above the fair market value.
And again, because of the way we have out finances structured, there would be no money in any estate, to LFS can go take a hike.
Based on what you have uploaded, it says you are in default if you die and there is no co-lessee, and that when in default, they have the right to the vehicle and the payments set forth in sec 29? That sounds like a lose all around. But in reality, I think they forgo some of the payments as they are hard to get, would be my guess, they def want the car back.
edit: it says any or all. So they can pick and choose the remedies, but have the right to all. Those terms are clearly written in favor of the house, no kidding.
edit2: but you are saying there would in fact be no way for them to execute their remedies. Maybe you should give the LFS guys a lesson in estate law! lol Sounds like they're asleep at the wheel.
To banks like that its all part of the cost of doing business. In the end, they have the car and their losses are minimized.
if there were an estate with assets then they could get in line and file a claim against the estate. If you've planned properly though there won't be an estate with any assets.
Based on what you have uploaded, it says you are in default if you die and there is no co-lessee, and that when in default, they have the right to the vehicle and the payments set forth in sec 29? That sounds like a lose all around. But in reality, I think they forgo some of the payments as they are hard to get, would be my guess, they def want the car back.
edit: it says any or all. So they can pick and choose the remedies, but have the right to all. Those terms are clearly written in favor of the house, no kidding.
edit2: but you are saying there would in fact be no way for them to execute their remedies. Maybe you should give the LFS guys a lesson in estate law! lol Sounds like they're asleep at the wheel.
Creditors aren't in the business of voluntarily foregoing "some" payments because they are hard to get. If LFS knows about the death of the lessee, then they will send their claim to the estate. If there's money in the estate to pay all creditors, LFS gets paid in full. If not, then maybe there's a negotiation. But LFS doesn't just throw up their hands and say "It might be hard to get all of our money, so let's not bother."
To banks like that its all part of the cost of doing business. In the end, they have the car and their losses are minimized.
if there were an estate with assets then they could get in line and file a claim against the estate. If you've planned properly though there won't be an estate with any assets.
This is a One Percenter issue. Very few people will structure their estate planning to enable them to have no assets remaining to pass through their will.
This is a One Percenter issue. Very few people will structure their estate planning to enable them to have no assets remaining to pass through their will.
Not at all, I am hardly a 1%er. All it takes is having beneficiaries set up for all your assets, own property jointly with your spouse. The key is, if you're married to not own any property alone that isn't in a trust.
In reality, most people have no money in their estate when they die, if they're married when they die...even with no planning at all.
08-08-18, 01:07 PM
