BoDarville

do yourself a favor, don't read any driving reviews or vehicle comparisons involving the IS200t

mmarshall

Usually, with the more-panache nameplate, you get a better warranty and a better level of customer service (though not always). Buick is one of the exceptions. It is upmarket, but not considered a full-luxury brand, yet offers excellent customer service and a full-luxury 6/70 and 4/50 warranty....same as Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti. Conversely even entry-level Korean-badged vehicles offer the superb 10/100 and 5/60 warranty that outdoes even some luxury makes.

My0gr81

According to Mr Burns sig, he is in Canuckistan, so pricing should be based on bmw.ca, not bmw.com
www.bmw.ca/myconfig/a1u9q6a8

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

I don't really care what the reviewers have to say, nor the unfavorable comparison results. I am around them or drive them consistently, and by no means a perfect car, you could spend your money on a lot worse. The amount of standard or available content for the price is very good.

oldcajun

The new Mazda 6 is quite a car, especially the Signature version. Real wood, real leather, decent power, decent interior room, and loaded with tech goodies. Or, for the same price, I could get a Mercedes CLA250 with no rear seat room and a ride like a go Kart, or a BMW 320 which is totally stripped down, or the base A4 with the derated engine and FWD. If I were shopping in this price range, it would be the Mazda for me.

The badges might impress some of my neighbors, but I still have to drive the car.

LexBob2

Plus, the Mazda 6 is a great looking sedan.

Htony

Our BMWs are from the E-series with MT. No way with AT on a car like this.

Johnhav430

Be funny to ask Dave Ramsey this question (I'm not a fan).

EZZ

The Es are a great car. Believe it or not, I found the IS350 F Sport to be closer to the E90 than the F30 335 in terms of handling.

joedaddy1

iTrader: (1)

I drove a few 2017/18 ES350 and wasn't impressed with quality and thought to myself why would anyone get this car over an Avalon and save $7k?

I have a rental 2018 Avalon in my possession for 2 weeks right now, while it's not a bad car at all, the new Avalon felt like an Uber or a Nissan Altima.
It's good enough to pass as a "decent" car, and I would LOVE to be picked up in it when I dial for Uber. But a Luxury car, it is not.

Now, I know why people buy ES350.

The option list is VERY similar.. the Avalon might even be better, but it feels like Avalon tried to check the boxes only. The ES350 felt like the engineers checked each options box, and then took an extra hour to design "it" better.
In comparison, they probably took 2 hours "extra" on the LS.

For example, infotainment button placement, easy of use, **** quality, stalk quality, door handle quality, wiper placement etc... the details that we don't really focus/care-too-much about..
Driving wise: steering wheel touch/feel, suspension, road noise, progressive suspension feedback, etc..
A Camaro MIGHT have same cornering ability as a M3 on the track, but on the streets Camaro felt WAY too harsh. (I actually had to drop the air pressure to 28 PSI on my rental because the ride was way too hard)
(PERHAPS) The Camaro engineer made sure the car looked good on paper/track. M3 engineers made sure the first 20% of suspension travel was usable in the streets.

As someone mentioned, the gap is definitely closing.. HID/LED headlight and NAV were 2 things that really set regular vs Luxury, but now, Corolla has it.

BippuLexus

For the same price, the Mazda 6 Signature is definitely a better buy than a say a CLA250 or BMW 320i of the same price. But I'm more alluding and curious about - the Mazda 6 signature (or any higher-trim economy car, like: Camry XSE/XLE, Accord Touring and etc...) compared to say a Mercedes Benz C300 or A4 loaded.

IE: The new VW Jetta (loaded)'s feature is almost similar to the that of the A4 loaded. The new Jetta even has pano-roof and wireless charging while the A4 doesn't. With the A4 pushing close to 50K, what's stopping someone from buying the Jetta (especially since it now has its own version of the Virtual Cockpit.)

Your last point is so true. Back in the 2000s, HID headlights + Navi were the biggest things that set luxury cars from economy cars. Then when LED lights became a thing - luxury cars barely had it exclusively for a long time. LED lights trickled down fast.

There isn't much exclusive equipment that separates luxury and higher-trim economy cars now in today's market.

SW17LS

To me a luxury car has never been about features and equipment, its about build quality, refinement and smooth, quiet operation.

BippuLexus

Agreed with this point too. A luxury car definitely has better build quality, materials, refinement, and etc...

This is what separates the Lexus LS/S-Class/7-Series from the Genesis G90. And the Genesis G90 is an amazing car - it has stacked with some feature even the S-Class don't have.

Sulu

These "luxury features", such as the HID headlights and GPS navigation system, have come down in price so much that it has become easy (and inexpensive) to put them into mass-market cars such as the Corolla, Civic, Camry, Accord, Altima and Mazda6.

This became evident to me in the early 2000's when the 2nd- and 3rd-generation Toyota Prii came with these "luxury features" to justify the higher price of the hybrid drivetrain. Add in these luxury features and make the Prius seem like a luxury car (on paper) so that buyers would not be scared away by the higher price of a hybrid car.

Yet, because some of these relatively low-cost features are still seen as aspirational -- luxury -- features, they can command a high retail price. This is what makes premium cars such profit makers and why brands such as Mazda and Buick include a number of these features as standard features -- command a high price for a relatively low cost car, and rake in the profits.

That said, the difference between a higher trim level of a mass market car (like the Toyota Camry) and a lower trim level of premium / luxury car (such as the Lexus ES) is the fact that on the mass market car, the automaker is adding features to a basic car, but for the luxury car, the automaker is deleting features from a better-designed, better-built, higher-end car. It is easier to delete little, individual features from a higher-end car -- you still retain the essence of what makes it a better car -- than it is to add little features to a lower-end car; at a certain point, it becomes obvious that an automaker is merely adding lipstick to a pig.

SW17LS

Eh, the G90 is pretty close in terms of quality, refinement, ride etc.