Future of the Lexus GS around the world
03-30-18, 07:54 AM
#61
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
neither the kia stinger nor even the g70 should be competition to the gs which is quite a bit bigger and certainly more expensive. but lexus just hasn't invested in it, dealers don't stock it much, and dealers ignore it because the ES is a much easier sell.
03-30-18, 08:18 AM
#62
Lexus Champion
The interior while nice quality lacked luxury feature readily available on Germans such rear/side curtains, power mirrors, passenger seat with no adjustments like drivers, HUD, no LED headlights etc.
Options and Colors are very limited.
Fsport models are all cosmetic with no power bump.
03-30-18, 08:22 AM
#63
Pole Position
The GS is a good measuring stick of what can happen to Lexus as a whole. They are charging $60k for a V6 engine with no other engine options (the hybrid dont count since they sold like 1 of those a yr). From there you have the $85k GSF. The V6 became the middle ground with the turbo 4, but its just poor product planning and offering relative to the competition. And this problem proliferates through the Lexus lineup. This is why they always have to compete on price instead of prestige and desire. Luxury car buyers are willing to pay more if they have something they desire.
Is the S class really 2-3x the car of an E class? Or is the 7 Series really....no its not.
Is the S class really 2-3x the car of an E class? Or is the 7 Series really....no its not.
03-30-18, 09:33 AM
#64
Lexus Test Driver
03-30-18, 09:37 AM
#65
Lexus Test Driver
This is intro model, GS has been around for 4 Generations and cant break a 1000 units even though its a "Lexus"
03-30-18, 09:40 AM
#66
Lexus Champion
03-30-18, 09:43 AM
#67
Lexus Test Driver
No rear/side shades
No power mirrors
No power trunk from my memory
The passenger seat had half of adjustment as driver seat
No option for cool 3 LED headlights
03-30-18, 09:44 AM
#68
Lexus Test Driver
You can make all the excuses you want for the GS - its price, came out long time ago etc.
The fact is it never sold well even in its first few MYs compared to the Germans.
Consumers see that its a half baked product from Lexus which had nice platform with quality made interior but had OLD engine with no V8 option for first 3-4 yrs on market!
The interior while nice quality lacked luxury feature readily available on Germans such rear/side curtains, power mirrors, passenger seat with no adjustments like drivers, HUD, no LED headlights etc.
Options and Colors are very limited.
Fsport models are all cosmetic with no power bump.
Then to really put salt on the wound they bring out a GSF years later with 467hp!
Not only is it 100hp + underpowered, its WAY overpriced and also LACKS many luxury features that competitors have.
Lexus in Japan is very slow to change and that has killed the brand because the high end luxury market is growing like crazy as more ppl around the world have higher incomes. These luxury buyers want customization and choice - Lexus gives you pre-packaged cars and take it or leave it ordering.
The final nail in coffin is the poor styling. 4GS was an awkward design with its poorly integrated Spindle grille and the refresh is even worse. The new G80 looks much more sophisticated, classy and will age much better.
Lexus needs to put ALL its resources and come out with a FULL product line for the GS but that takes $$$ and lots of time, they have shown time and time again they only will focus on models that sell in big #s, unless its a pet project of Toyoda like new LC and LFA was.
The fact is it never sold well even in its first few MYs compared to the Germans.
Consumers see that its a half baked product from Lexus which had nice platform with quality made interior but had OLD engine with no V8 option for first 3-4 yrs on market!
The interior while nice quality lacked luxury feature readily available on Germans such rear/side curtains, power mirrors, passenger seat with no adjustments like drivers, HUD, no LED headlights etc.
Options and Colors are very limited.
Fsport models are all cosmetic with no power bump.
Then to really put salt on the wound they bring out a GSF years later with 467hp!
Not only is it 100hp + underpowered, its WAY overpriced and also LACKS many luxury features that competitors have.
Lexus in Japan is very slow to change and that has killed the brand because the high end luxury market is growing like crazy as more ppl around the world have higher incomes. These luxury buyers want customization and choice - Lexus gives you pre-packaged cars and take it or leave it ordering.
The final nail in coffin is the poor styling. 4GS was an awkward design with its poorly integrated Spindle grille and the refresh is even worse. The new G80 looks much more sophisticated, classy and will age much better.
Lexus needs to put ALL its resources and come out with a FULL product line for the GS but that takes $$$ and lots of time, they have shown time and time again they only will focus on models that sell in big #s, unless its a pet project of Toyoda like new LC and LFA was.
While the average consumer might see a "half-baked product", the Lexus GS isn't a half-baked product. This has to do with the psychology behind the brand and marketing. I have a MBA with a specification in marketing - let me explain:
The 2016 Lexus GS has all the features you listed and it matched the 2016 BMW 5 Series feature per feature. (Note: The 5 Series was also on the last model year and it still sold more cars too) Numbers of 2016 sales: GS - 14.8K units and 5 Series - 32.4K units.
^This begs the question - how did a Lexus GS (that's also newer) with the same amount of features, that also cost less too, lose in sales to a car that's on its last model year.
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I think firstly you are correct about the customization of the 5 Series/E-Class. Wealthy people in this market like to have the option to customize their cars and Lexus doesn't offer that. +1
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Second - I want to address the marketing of BMW and Mercedes Benz. As humans, we like to rank things to know whats "the best". This is why there are University rankings. To the average consumer (non-car people), there is a hierarchy, if you will, of brands too. If you ask the average consumer whats the best brand in cars - they'll likely say something like: Lamborghini/Ferrari/Rolls/Aston Martin (the extremely fancy) and then right after they'll mention Mercedes, BMW and Audi. Rarely someone will actually say Lexus, Infiniti or Acura. And I think this has to do with them closely relating themselves to their entry-level brands.
This is the reason why I think Mercedes Benz and BMW sells so well to begin with. Its not necessary the car is better, its the brand that make people think its better. IE: This is why the BMW 3 Series sell so much better than the Lexus IS/Infiniti Q/Acura TLX. IE: When the Lexus IS released in 2013 for MY2014, they sold 51.3K units. However, the BMW 3 series, which was already 3 years old already, sold 142,232 units in the same year. How's that possible when the Lexus IS at 2014 had way better tech than the 3 Series? Especially with the fact that Lexus IS introduced LFA-Style Gauges with the metal piece gauge actually moving. That's fancier than anything BMW had at the time - it gave more of a luxury feel - but yet, the BMW 3 series sold 3 times more. This holds true for the 5 Series as well - there are going to be people that will buy the 5 Series rather than owning a Lexus GS with options.
Again - I believe its the brand and the perception it gives to the average consumer to make them think that its better. I'm not sure about where you live but in California - I see so many, so many BMW or Mercedes Benz that have ZERO options on it. These zero packaged or minimally packaged Mercedes or BMW cost as much as a Lexus fully loaded. The only reason people would buy a close no option Mercedes Benz and BMW over a Lexus fully loaded is that people think the brand is better. Why else would you pay more for less?
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Thirdly there is price-brand correlation. When wealthy older buyers see the Lexus GS costing roughly "only" 10K cheaper to a BMW/Mercedes Benz, they'll think to themselves - "if I'm spending this much money, I'll pay more for a better brand." Think about it this way - what sounds better? "I paid 66K for a BMW 5 Series" or "I paid 55K for a Lexus" Chances are, to the average person, the BMW one sounds better. Does this mean the 5 Series/E-Class is a better car? No. I actually never thought the 5 Series/E-Class was a better car than the GS. Because if the average consumer actually do their own research and look behind the marketing/brand, they'll realize the Lexus GS offers the same amount of stuff the BMW 5 Series/E-Class did. Even right now - the Lexus GS offers similar things to the G30 BMW 5 Series at a discount.
I think all of this + Lexus ES sales are the reason why Lexus GS sales were never good.
I agree, the customization factor plays a big role here as well. People with money often demand what they want and don't want in their cars. With Lexus customization is almost non existent, it's like communism, you get what everyone else is getting and you should be thankful.
i agree about your communism statement, I’ve been to Japan and that’s how the entire country operates. Toyota is no different from any of the other big Japanese car companies when it comes to this mentality. They are always producing cars they think you should have vs what the consumer actually wants.
I’m excited to see the next GS debut. If the production car turns out to be a smaller LS500 I’m all in, otherwise I’ll probably buy the new 8 series Gran Coupé with the inline6 option and AWD.
I’m excited to see the next GS debut. If the production car turns out to be a smaller LS500 I’m all in, otherwise I’ll probably buy the new 8 series Gran Coupé with the inline6 option and AWD.
I think the better term to describe Japan and the car industry there is conservative. Because it is a conservative country. They aren't fond of change so they offer pre-packaged cars without the option of you choosing individual options.
+1 The Lexus GS has been offering these features. Again - I want to bring up my point I said earlier about brand. This is another interesting thing about the psychology behind marketing. An average consumer can actually think because the brand is better - its likely to have more features. However, that doesn't hold true. But then again - that's marketing. By the time the consumer features out they bought something that cost more and have less stuff, the company already took their cash.
03-30-18, 09:50 AM
#70
Lexus Champion
Consumers see that its a half baked product from Lexus which had nice platform with quality made interior but had OLD engine with no V8 option for first 3-4 yrs on market!
The interior while nice quality lacked luxury feature readily available on Germans such rear/side curtains, power mirrors, passenger seat with no adjustments like drivers, HUD, no LED headlights etc.
Options and Colors are very limited.
Fsport models are all cosmetic with no power bump.
The interior while nice quality lacked luxury feature readily available on Germans such rear/side curtains, power mirrors, passenger seat with no adjustments like drivers, HUD, no LED headlights etc.
Options and Colors are very limited.
Fsport models are all cosmetic with no power bump.
Do you still have your 535i? I still really love those and have considered it more than once.
03-30-18, 09:55 AM
#71
Lexus Test Driver
Yup. No power mirrors.
Nope. the 5 Series don't have power trunk either. It did have however the foot-under-the-rear-bumper-trunk-opener.
Nope. Both the GS and 5 Series had 10 way power adjustments for front passengers.
Nope. Both GS and 5 Series had the same headlights. Both of them were Bi-Xenon with LED DRLs. (Check mark/Angel eyes LED)
As I stated earlier - the Lexus GS offers similar features but with a few minor exceptions. These minor exceptions are not the real reason why people flock to BMW. There is obviously going to be minor exceptions when the Lexus GS cost about 10K less. This becomes more obvious when relating to my example I provided earlier - during the last year of the BMW F10 5 Series - it sold more than double of the Lexus GS still. (And at this time - the Lexus GS closed majority of the "minor features" that gapped the two cars.)
Last edited by BippuLexus; 03-30-18 at 10:01 AM.
03-30-18, 10:15 AM
#73
03-30-18, 10:35 AM
#74
The Lexus GS had manual shades yes - the Lexus GS was cheaper.
Yup. No power mirrors.
Nope. the 5 Series don't have power trunk either. It did have however the foot-under-the-rear-bumper-trunk-opener.
Nope. Both the GS and 5 Series had 10 way power adjustments for front passengers.
Nope. Both GS and 5 Series had the same headlights. Both of them were Bi-Xenon with LED DRLs. (Check mark/Angel eyes LED)
As I stated earlier - the Lexus GS offers similar features but with a few minor exceptions. These minor exceptions are not the real reason why people flock to BMW. There is obviously going to be minor exceptions when the Lexus GS cost about 10K less. This becomes more obvious when relating to my example I provided earlier - during the last year of the BMW F10 5 Series - it sold more than double of the Lexus GS still. (And at this time - the Lexus GS closed majority of the "minor features" that gapped the two cars.)
Yup. No power mirrors.
Nope. the 5 Series don't have power trunk either. It did have however the foot-under-the-rear-bumper-trunk-opener.
Nope. Both the GS and 5 Series had 10 way power adjustments for front passengers.
Nope. Both GS and 5 Series had the same headlights. Both of them were Bi-Xenon with LED DRLs. (Check mark/Angel eyes LED)
As I stated earlier - the Lexus GS offers similar features but with a few minor exceptions. These minor exceptions are not the real reason why people flock to BMW. There is obviously going to be minor exceptions when the Lexus GS cost about 10K less. This becomes more obvious when relating to my example I provided earlier - during the last year of the BMW F10 5 Series - it sold more than double of the Lexus GS still. (And at this time - the Lexus GS closed majority of the "minor features" that gapped the two cars.)
The 5 series also doesn’t have sales cannibalization of a car that’s bigger than it, but also more affordable with similar equipment. If BMW made a front wheel drive sedan that was similar in size to the 5 series and sold it for $10k less I’m sure some consumers who don’t really prioritize driving dynamics would flock to that model 10 fold.
My first really nice car was a ES, I bought it when I was really young. I was enamored because I owned a “Lexus” and I of course wanted a GS, but my budget wouldn’t allow for the GS at the time and I wanted the security of FWD for blizzard like conditions.
Would I buy one now that I make a lot more money? Hell no, it’s a boring car for for people who don’t care about how a car handles, but they want some luxury, reliability and a badge with some prestige. You see them every where you look. It’s a fine car, but not for the young at heart.
03-30-18, 11:28 AM
#75
Lexus Test Driver
The 5 series also doesn’t have sales cannibalization of a car that’s bigger than it, but also more affordable with similar equipment. If BMW made a front wheel drive sedan that was similar in size to the 5 series and sold it for $10k less I’m sure some consumers who don’t really prioritize driving dynamics would flock to that model 10 fold.
My first really nice car was a ES, I bought it when I was really young. I was enamored because I owned a “Lexus” and I of course wanted a GS, but my budget wouldn’t allow for the GS at the time and I wanted the security of FWD for blizzard like conditions.
Would I buy one now that I make a lot more money? Hell no, it’s a boring car for for people who don’t care about how a car handles, but they want some luxury, reliability and a badge with some prestige. You see them every where you look. It’s a fine car, but not for the young at heart.
My first really nice car was a ES, I bought it when I was really young. I was enamored because I owned a “Lexus” and I of course wanted a GS, but my budget wouldn’t allow for the GS at the time and I wanted the security of FWD for blizzard like conditions.
Would I buy one now that I make a lot more money? Hell no, it’s a boring car for for people who don’t care about how a car handles, but they want some luxury, reliability and a badge with some prestige. You see them every where you look. It’s a fine car, but not for the young at heart.
Lexus' biggest mistake was selling the ES along side the GS. I remember when I was first getting into cars, I always thought its weird Lexus sold the ES next to the GS. Even as a young kid learning about cars, I already knew the ES being sold next to the GS was a bit odd.
Lexus GS suffers from ES taking its sales and poor marketing. I say poor marketing because to an average consumer - the BMW/Mercedes are deemed as a "better brand". This idea of brand will cause a lot of people to buy a car without realizing there's a cheaper version of the same car on another brand. My favorite example to use is the Lexus IS and 3 Series sales. The 2014 Lexus IS was MILES ahead of the 2014 3 Series in terms of tech, but yet the 3 year old BMW 3 Series still sold almost 3 times more than the newly redesign Lexus IS. Evidence of this is: you'll see people buying a minimally packaged 3 Series and for the same price you can get a loaded Lexus IS with more options.