Future of the Lexus GS around the world
03-29-18, 02:18 PM
#46
Lexus Test Driver
Click bait title. Lexus hasn't announced anything. All we have is one magazine reporting on another magazine's article. People are pining for info on the next GS, so I have some apprehension in believing this German magazine called up Toyota and got some kind of confirmation on the fate of the GS and long term plans for the ES in the lineup.
The article from carscoops is pretty much unconfirmed and rumor-talk. Its unlikely the Lexus GS is going away since they have the 2018 S220 Toyota Crown going on sale Fall 2018 as MY2019.
Best assumptions: next generation Lexus GS comes out early to mid 2019 as MY2020. Then the Lexus IS follows - at maybe either 4th quarter 2019 or early 2020 as MY2021.
03-29-18, 02:42 PM
#47
This. +1
The article from carscoops is pretty much unconfirmed and rumor-talk. Its unlikely the Lexus GS is going away since they have the 2018 S220 Toyota Crown going on sale Fall 2018 as MY2019.
Best assumptions: next generation Lexus GS comes out early to mid 2019 as MY2020. Then the Lexus IS follows - at maybe either 4th quarter 2019 or early 2020 as MY2021.
The article from carscoops is pretty much unconfirmed and rumor-talk. Its unlikely the Lexus GS is going away since they have the 2018 S220 Toyota Crown going on sale Fall 2018 as MY2019.
Best assumptions: next generation Lexus GS comes out early to mid 2019 as MY2020. Then the Lexus IS follows - at maybe either 4th quarter 2019 or early 2020 as MY2021.
Lexus Enthusiasts has a article they just posted rumoring that the 7th generation ES will be only offered with a 2.0l Turbo i4 and 2.5l i4 Hybrid. https://lexusenthusiast.com/2018/03/...us-es-sedan-3/ This will make some since to help further differentiate the ES from the newly designed Avalon.
The GS will live on, the chassis development work has already been done with the 2019 Toyota Crown.
Last edited by highrev6; 03-29-18 at 08:31 PM.
03-29-18, 04:33 PM
#48
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by highrev6
I agree with your post 100% Lexus isn’t abandoning the premium midsize luxury car market. Heck Infiniti, Cadillac and Volvo all sell less of their midsize luxury entries than Lexus does with the GS and they aren’t talking about discontinuing their entries. Yes I know Lexus has the ES, but that car isn’t engineered as a drivers car like the GS is. Everybody knows the ES is based upon the Camry. I don’t see a future where the ES is selling north of $50k.
Lexus Enthusiasts has a article they just posted rumoring that the 7th generation ES will be only offered with a 2.0l Turbo i4 and 2.5l i4 Hybrid. https://lexusenthusiast.com/2018/03/...us-es-sedan-3/ This will make some since to help further differentiate the ES from the newly designed Avalon.
This GS will live on, the chassis development work has already been done with the 2019 Toyota Crown.
Lexus Enthusiasts has a article they just posted rumoring that the 7th generation ES will be only offered with a 2.0l Turbo i4 and 2.5l i4 Hybrid. https://lexusenthusiast.com/2018/03/...us-es-sedan-3/ This will make some since to help further differentiate the ES from the newly designed Avalon.
This GS will live on, the chassis development work has already been done with the 2019 Toyota Crown.
03-29-18, 04:44 PM
#49
I agree with your post 100% Lexus isn’t abandoning the premium midsize luxury car market. Heck Infiniti, Cadillac and Volvo all sell less of their midsize luxury entries than Lexus does with the GS and they aren’t talking about discontinuing their entries. Yes I know Lexus has the ES, but that car isn’t engineered as a drivers car like the GS is. Everybody knows the ES is based upon the Camry. I don’t see a future where the ES is selling north of $50k.
This GS will live on, the chassis development work has already been done with the 2019 Toyota Crown.
03-29-18, 05:22 PM
#50
Kia is not a threat to Lexus. Stinger is a nice car, but doesn’t hold the prestige of a proper rear wheel drive lexus sedan. The next generation GS will put the Stinger’s flame out quickly when it arrives.
03-29-18, 05:33 PM
#51
Lexus Test Driver
Now G80 outselling GS 3 to 1.....
03-29-18, 05:59 PM
#52
Not a fair comparison, your comparing a car that’s been on sale since 2012 and is at the final year of its life cycle to a fairly new redesigned model from a car company that only has 2 models to choose from. Many of us will agree that if Lexus didn’t sell the boring, but better value for dollar ES right next to the GS the sales would be significantly better.
Plus didn’t Hyundai just fire their North American CEO for lackluster sells while Toyota/Lexus kicked butt last year.
just saying, don’t kick a bro why he’s down, let’s see how well the G80 out sells the GS once it’s gets its all new redesign.
03-29-18, 06:37 PM
#53
Lexus Champion
The 4GS is perfectly good car with a proper rwd setup, but like the 4LS it certainly lingered on its current architecture for awhile. The two German rwd cars; E class and 5 series always outsold this model by significant margins. So it's not surprising to see Toyota really just using the GS as a placeholder and not showing off any concepts.
The Crown is around because it's a heritage nameplate for Toyota. It should be remembered it is a JDM car, not a Europe or NA product. It is going to be interesting to see how long Toyota keeps the 4GS. If there was a future GS coming along soon, we should have seen a concept at some auto show by now. So maybe the next GS will be a 2021 intro, while Lexus focuses on other fwd products and of course the LS.
The Crown is around because it's a heritage nameplate for Toyota. It should be remembered it is a JDM car, not a Europe or NA product. It is going to be interesting to see how long Toyota keeps the 4GS. If there was a future GS coming along soon, we should have seen a concept at some auto show by now. So maybe the next GS will be a 2021 intro, while Lexus focuses on other fwd products and of course the LS.
03-29-18, 08:17 PM
#54
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
any new gs, if one comes, is going to have to wow. and that fugly crown isn't going to cut it.
03-29-18, 08:29 PM
#55
Lexus Test Driver
The Stinger will make a great used car though. I can see it selling off of used car lots once it devalues down to the 20s-30s thousands.
Here's the problem with the Lexus GS vs Hyundai G80 sales. The Lexus GS and the G80 are pretty similar in offerings. However, the G80 is 10K cheaper. This is why people buy the G80. And then there is the factor of the ES is also taking up sales as well.
Not a fair comparison, your comparing a car that’s been on sale since 2012 and is at the final year of its life cycle to a fairly new redesigned model from a car company that only has 2 models to choose from. Many of us will agree that if Lexus didn’t sell the boring, but better value for dollar ES right next to the GS the sales would be significantly better.
Plus didn’t Hyundai just fire their North American CEO for lackluster sells while Toyota/Lexus kicked butt last year.
just saying, don’t kick a bro why he’s down, let’s see how well the G80 out sells the GS once it’s gets its all new redesign.
Plus didn’t Hyundai just fire their North American CEO for lackluster sells while Toyota/Lexus kicked butt last year.
just saying, don’t kick a bro why he’s down, let’s see how well the G80 out sells the GS once it’s gets its all new redesign.
Here are the numbers:
When the GS released in 2012 it sold 22K units and the BMW 5 Series of the same year sold 56K units. (Note: the GS was newly design at this point while the 5 Series was already 2 years old.)
Lexus GS 2016 Sales number show the GS sold 14.8K units while the BMW 5 Series of the same year sold 32K units (Note: the BMW 5 Series was on its last model year and still sold over double the amount of the GS)
This is the reason why I think the end-of-cycle for the Lexus GS wasn't the reason why the GS sales sucked. I think Lexus GS sales sucked because people in this market prefers BMW/Mercedes. I say the they prefer BMW/Mercedes because the features for the GS, E-Class and 5 Series aren't all that different - the only difference is the badge. A fully loaded Lexus GS is about 56K and a fully loaded G30 530i is at 66K. (Note: The 530i is packaged similar and has the same feature as the GS - with the exception a few minor things.) People in this market tend to be wealthy and older - so they will most likely sell out 66K for the BMW because they might think 56K for a Lexus isn't worth it. As you may know - there are a lot badge fanatics out there.
And the ES was also eating up the sales too.
Last edited by BippuLexus; 03-29-18 at 09:06 PM.
03-29-18, 09:06 PM
#56
I’m not going to pre apologize for this statement, but the name KIA just sounds cheap and tacky for a car manufacturer. Maybe I’m a brand snob, but I just don’t see the KIA brand holding a candle to Lexus with their higher end models. When your at a family cook out and you announce to your brother in law you just bought a KIA he’s gonna just say awe that’s nice congrats. But if you tell him you just bought a brand new Lexus he’s gonna be little bit more interested in knowing which model you bought.
It took Toyota 3 years to create the brand name Lexus. I think they made a good choice going with that name vs other alleged alternative like Lexicon.
Also I know people are saying the Kia brand has gotta start some where just like Lexus had to start from scratch in ‘89, but back then there weren’t so many really nice luxurious cars to choose from. Mercedes, BMW and Jaguar, Cadillac and Lincoln. The Acura and Infiniti brands were new only 2 and 4 years older than Lexus. The timing was right for Lexus.
Im sure Hyundai’s Genesis brand will develop into a viable competitive car company in 10 years or so. But I don’t see hard working people who are trying to fake it to they make it wanting to pay $45-$55k for KIA Stinger. The K900 looks like a old mans car already and it only debuted 2 days ago.
It took Toyota 3 years to create the brand name Lexus. I think they made a good choice going with that name vs other alleged alternative like Lexicon.
Also I know people are saying the Kia brand has gotta start some where just like Lexus had to start from scratch in ‘89, but back then there weren’t so many really nice luxurious cars to choose from. Mercedes, BMW and Jaguar, Cadillac and Lincoln. The Acura and Infiniti brands were new only 2 and 4 years older than Lexus. The timing was right for Lexus.
Im sure Hyundai’s Genesis brand will develop into a viable competitive car company in 10 years or so. But I don’t see hard working people who are trying to fake it to they make it wanting to pay $45-$55k for KIA Stinger. The K900 looks like a old mans car already and it only debuted 2 days ago.
03-30-18, 04:14 AM
#57
Lexus Test Driver
You can make all the excuses you want for the GS - its price, came out long time ago etc.
The fact is it never sold well even in its first few MYs compared to the Germans.
Consumers see that its a half baked product from Lexus which had nice platform with quality made interior but had OLD engine with no V8 option for first 3-4 yrs on market!
The interior while nice quality lacked luxury feature readily available on Germans such rear/side curtains, power mirrors, passenger seat with no adjustments like drivers, HUD, no LED headlights etc.
Options and Colors are very limited.
Fsport models are all cosmetic with no power bump.
Then to really put salt on the wound they bring out a GSF years later with 467hp!
Not only is it 100hp + underpowered, its WAY overpriced and also LACKS many luxury features that competitors have.
Lexus in Japan is very slow to change and that has killed the brand because the high end luxury market is growing like crazy as more ppl around the world have higher incomes. These luxury buyers want customization and choice - Lexus gives you pre-packaged cars and take it or leave it ordering.
The final nail in coffin is the poor styling. 4GS was an awkward design with its poorly integrated Spindle grille and the refresh is even worse. The new G80 looks much more sophisticated, classy and will age much better.
Lexus needs to put ALL its resources and come out with a FULL product line for the GS but that takes $$$ and lots of time, they have shown time and time again they only will focus on models that sell in big #s, unless its a pet project of Toyoda like new LC and LFA was.
The fact is it never sold well even in its first few MYs compared to the Germans.
Consumers see that its a half baked product from Lexus which had nice platform with quality made interior but had OLD engine with no V8 option for first 3-4 yrs on market!
The interior while nice quality lacked luxury feature readily available on Germans such rear/side curtains, power mirrors, passenger seat with no adjustments like drivers, HUD, no LED headlights etc.
Options and Colors are very limited.
Fsport models are all cosmetic with no power bump.
Then to really put salt on the wound they bring out a GSF years later with 467hp!
Not only is it 100hp + underpowered, its WAY overpriced and also LACKS many luxury features that competitors have.
Lexus in Japan is very slow to change and that has killed the brand because the high end luxury market is growing like crazy as more ppl around the world have higher incomes. These luxury buyers want customization and choice - Lexus gives you pre-packaged cars and take it or leave it ordering.
The final nail in coffin is the poor styling. 4GS was an awkward design with its poorly integrated Spindle grille and the refresh is even worse. The new G80 looks much more sophisticated, classy and will age much better.
Lexus needs to put ALL its resources and come out with a FULL product line for the GS but that takes $$$ and lots of time, they have shown time and time again they only will focus on models that sell in big #s, unless its a pet project of Toyoda like new LC and LFA was.
03-30-18, 04:52 AM
#58
Lexus in Japan is very slow to change and that has killed the brand because the high end luxury market is growing like crazy as more ppl around the world have higher incomes. These luxury buyers want customization and choice - Lexus gives you pre-packaged cars and take it or leave it ordering.
03-30-18, 05:38 AM
#59
I agree, the customization factor plays a big role here as well. People with money often demand what they want and don't want in their cars. With Lexus customization is almost non existent, it's like communism, you get what everyone else is getting and you should be thankful.
i agree about your communism statement, I’ve been to Japan and that’s how the entire country operates. Toyota is no different from any of the other big Japanese car companies when it comes to this mentality. They are always producing cars they think you should have vs what the consumer actually wants.
I’m excited to see the next GS debut. If the production car turns out to be a smaller LS500 I’m all in, otherwise I’ll probably buy the new 8 series Gran Coupé with the inline6 option and AWD.
03-30-18, 07:23 AM
#60
Lexus Fanatic
Wow. Turned into a KIA Stinger vs GS debate. Let’s see in a few years what the Stinger sales are at. They are off to about 1k units per month. I doubt it will be higher than that in NA.