jrmckinley

In the last couple of years, car/sedan styling has changed to higher trunks, smaller rear windows, and overall different angles and proportions (especially in the rear of sedans). I rent a lot of cars for work and have noticed that the visibility in these new designs is pretty poor - I'm 6'1" and I often struggle seeing much out the rear window of these newer cars - especially when trying to back out of a parking space or out of my garage or driveway. I started thinking maybe the prevalence of back-up cameras being standard on almost every car nowadays has led the design team to push these new designs and not worry about visibility as much since you can use the camera when backing up. Last week I had a 2017 Impala as my rental - surprisingly it didn't have a back-up camera and I had to rely solely on the side mirrors when backing out of parking spots, etc. It makes me think of other new cars with similar styling- the new Accord, Tesla Model 3 (the S has good visibility IMO), the LS500, etc. But even with a back-up camera, there are times I can't use those (direct sunlight into the camera causing glare, rain drops on the camera) so rear visibility still needs to be a priority in design.

It seems the days of putting your hand on the passenger headrest and looking out the rear window as you reverse are behind us. Am I alone in this thought?

FmrAccord

I had a Lexus nx loaner last week and have to say the rear visibility was awful. I am old school and prefer to turn my head when reversing. The field of view is much better this way.

However, the rear visibility in my ES is great.

I keep a document of things that any vehicle I would purchase must have and good rear visibility is one.

Johnhav430

I don't think that the shapes of the cars have anything to do with backup cams, that's just me. Seems the trend is for low rooflines, maybe this means the rake is extreme.

But as far as looking over the shoulder, yes, that's about as finished as CDs are or an iPod, the manual transmission, or headlight washers on a 2018 Porsche 991. I've mentioned it before, there are people working in my office who have never touched a CD. Not for software, not for music. I am pretty sure it won't be long before there are even those who have never had music on a USB drive.

I used to be able to parallel park my Maxima into a space exactly its size with maybe 1/2" front and back to spare. In my single days I was always out in the clubs and bars looking for parking in that car.

Today, I actually have a difficult time in knowing how close my bumper is with my 335i as I did not order iDrive and I don't want to kiss any cars front or back. With the Lexus or my wife's car, the cameras make it easy to get really close without contact. I had a rental Pathfinder and although a terrible vehicle, I liked the top view cam system. I swear the parking spaces are diminutive in Toronto and I went to a restaurant where you need a can opener to get in and out of vehicles, many of which are nice. The top view really helped to get it into the space.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

with the 360 cam in my car, i never look behind me or even in side view mirrors any more. and heads up display shows me blind spot indicators.

i did have to suffer the indignity of having to remove a squished bug partially obscuring the front camera the other day though.

Johnhav430

Oh, so you think it's ok to squish insects driving around with your fancy front cam system? lol

No lie I really find that top view thing extremely handy....

mmarshall

The answer to your question is a resounding YES.......for two main reasons. First, Federal roll-over standards for roof-strength, particularly on SUVs, have often resulted in larger, thicker roof-pillars that do a much better job of preventing roof-collapses, but also generally increase the amount of the outside view that they block. Second, on sedans, the ongoing obsession with sporty profiles and coupe-type styling, has resulted in lower rooflines, smaller rear windows, high trunk lids with "wedge" shapes, and thicker C-pillars, all of which severely compromise rearward view, not to mention, of course, interior headroom and space-efficient. Although this type of styling did not necessarily start with the VW CC and Mercedes CLS, those were probably the two sedans, especially the CLS, that popularized it. The auto-press, at the time, jumped onto that look immediately....they loved it, and their comments greatly influenced sedan styling after that, while all but completely overlooking the obvious problems in visibility and space-efficiency.

jrmckinley

Interesting- I had a 2017 Pathfinder as a rental 2 weeks ago that had the 360 cam (overhead view) and I didn't really like it. Maybe it was poorly executed on Nissan's part- I'd like to see how other manufacturers are doing it to see if it's more useful. In theory I understand how it could be very helpful. It feels very strange to rely solely on your screen to see all of what's around and behind you but I think this is a sign of the times where we rely on technology more and more.

scooky

Without looking at data I doubt there is a causation (cameras cause worse rear view). There may end up being some correlation where designers decide rear view is somewhat less important than it used to be. But I suspect other factors will have more influence, like others pointed out. Style, regulations, etc.
Rear visibility is used for a lot more than just backing up, so hopefully designers wouldn't weigh the camera too heavily in the decision.

Related news, backup cameras are mandatory going forward on new cars. Stated reason is to save lives. While I like backup cameras, a little, I'm not convinced they will save that many lives/injuries. I'm sure it will help some. Cost/benefit seems imbalanced to make it a requirement.
I'm not convinced the camera alone is going to stop too many back overs. I think the proximity sensors and pedestrian detection (some using the cameras) would be where the value comes from. I don't think those are part of the requirements though.
I've only had a backup camera for a few months. I don't find it to be useful at distance. I usually only use it in the last few feet of backing into a spot. I trust my windows and mirrors more. Maybe this will change more over time. I like having it though.

Johnhav430

Think about how many cars violate the "no-zone" day in, and day out, of tractor/trailers. How many automobile drivers don't actually even know what it is, nor could they even describe approximately where it is in relation to a truck. I think cams and autonomous driving are a necessary evil to assist today's mindless drivers! Some even say they are not driving, they are traveling, when asked to present a valid DL, registration and proof of insurance, to a trooper!

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

brief (but confusing lol) overview of g90 setup.

Aron9000

One of the reasons I bought a full size truck was visibility. Test drove a Mazda 3 hatch, great visibility foward and to the sides, smallish A-pillars. But it did have some rather bad blind spots in the 3/4 rear view and the rear window wasn't all that big. Not that big of a deal on a small car like that though, and it wasn't like new Camaro type of blind spots.

Still though I wish my Tundra had a backup camera, just because of the size of the vehicle there is a blind spot behind the tailgate for about 3 feet. I can get it backed up pretty easy turning my head around and looking, its just that if there ever was a little kid or small object right behind my bumper, I'd never see it.

Fizzboy7

I do not think back-up cameras have anything to do with declining visibility. Declining visibility had already begun to rapidly deteriorate before cameras became popular. This is a trend that's been in the running for a good fifteen years. The rear cameras where added to help see low or small items (read: children) below the decklid, when backing out of a driveway or parking space. The eroding visibility we have today is from the rear, side windows, not from the back window.

In reference to someone's comment about high trunks and wedge sedans, that is not the case. The trend today are sedans with droppy and dumpy trunks, that slope down (semi-hatchback). Visibility should be improving with such a design, but it's not because of the rear, side windows shrinking.

pbm317

Aerodynamics for improved emissions and fuel economy is one of the bigger elements drawing up the high rear decklids.

BippuLexus

I don't think back-up cams really affected the visibility of cars. I think it has to do with more of the car design trend - IE: lower and sloping roof-lines.

Auto makers and people know the back up camera/360 (top down) camera is not a feature that replaces turning over your shoulder. You should always still turn your head. While these cameras to help, there will always be things that is picked up better the old fashion way - turning your head. I do think back up cameras are 100% needed to avoid hitting smaller objects that you can't see below the trunk. However, I do not think 360 (top down) cameras are needed. I think its nice to have but its not needed because you should still look around and you'll be able to see everything.

Sulu

I believe that visibility is getting worse not because of technology but because of styling. For the past decade and more, the styling trend has been the chopped roof look, with high beltlines (and sweeping, swooping up dramatically to the back window) and the sitting-in-a-bathtub feeling.

Arguably, the worst offenders of this type of styling are the modern Camaro and the Chrysler 300, but the Japanese and Koreans have been equally bad. Until the newest Camry came out, the past 2 generations have had high beltlines. The previous-generation Sonata also had a high beltline. And the current generation Mazda3, with its high beltline that sweeps up to a gunslit rear window is particularly bad.

Drivers are now sitting so low in the car, it is a wonder they can see out at all. I regularly see smaller-stature men and women who look like their noses are at height of the top of the steering wheel. How can you see down the road when you literally have to peek over the top of the dashboard? And if these drivers are driving cars with extremely high back parcel shelves (due to a high windowline and trunklid), how do they see out the back? Even placing your arm over the front passenger-side seatback and turning your head does not help.