arentz07

While you're in the car, sure. But outside? I have never heard a V-8 so silent that I couldn't tell it was idling. I have experienced only a couple of cars in my lifetime that had really quiet engines to the point of the idle being barely audible. So once you get out of the car, it should be rather obvious that it's still on.

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

There will always be a group of idiots, oops sorry, "clueless" people out there.

I've seen quite a few people standing there pressing their remote, pull on the door handle-repeat several times, have a blank look on their face only to realize it's not their car, i.e. they're trying to open a silver rav-4 when their car-silver CRV was parked 2 stall down

While I was waiting for my wife at the store, some woman opened my door and got into my front passenger seat (I have a silver sienna) when the car she wanted to get in was a white odyssey. She didn't even apologize, idiot.
There's not one day where I don't say -excuse my french, " WTF are these people doing on the road?" making all of these bone-headed move

Again, seeing how "clueless" these people are, it doesn't surprise me anymore if higher techs are introduced and they don't take the initiative to adapt

Johnhav430

One benefit, imho, to a computer controlled starter motor / start process, is that if key equipped, turning the key while the motor is running has no effect, i.e. the starter is not engaged. I have stupidly turned the key on the LS430 once, when it was running, and on the Maxima, I'm going to keep it 100, maybe 10X. That is pretty dumb, I know. We all have to have done something dumb in our lifetimes. But the more that is at stake, the more we need to pay attention. To have died or killed someone because of not having pressed the button to stop the engine, I wonder, can a person live with themselves if all they do is to blame the mfg? It's kind of not owning up to one's actions. my .02

arentz07

I know, we all make mistakes - pretty sure I have tried to turn off my IS without putting it in park about 5 times or so. But the specific case of leaving the car running is interesting because there are so many indicators that you didn't turn it off, specifically for keyless-ignition vehicles.

SW17LS

Just ridiculous, I'm involved in a discussion about this article on another forum I post on.

tex2670

This is the part that boggles my mind--no matter what kind of car you have, that someone can claim that they are out of the car, in an enclosed garage, and they don't hear the engine running. The ONLY possible legitimacy of this is the stop/start systems. You pull in the garage, the engine shuts off by the auto stop/start, but you don't turn the ignition off, you get out, go in the house, and at some point, the stop/start system re-starts the engine. BUT--this is more of an auto stop-start feature flaw than a keyless ignition flaw--it's just that I don't think there are many cars with auto stop-start that don't also have keyless ignition.

But, no matter what, it's user cluelessness.

JDR76

Even in my Highlander, with the stop system, if the engine is off in the garage and the ignition is still on, the car will beep like crazy when I get out of it, since the key fob is on me.

I still say this report is meaningless until they show how many people die when they leave their keyed ignitions on. It seems to me that would be easier, because those cars won't beep at you. I don't think this is a push button start issue.

tex2670

The original story I saw on this said cars should have an audible warning heard outside of the car to prevent this .... then made a point to say many of the incidents occurred on Toyota and Lexus vehicles, which have that feature.

JDR76

I saw that. It's perplexing to me how you can miss that beeping. Which again makes me think that if you cant' tell it's running, ignore the beeping, and don't turn it off, that it's not really a push button issue.

If they also released the number of fatalities caused by it on keyed ignitions, we could see the scope of the problem. If they said 28 people with pushbutton starts died from leaving their car on but no one with a keyed ignition did the same, you could reasonably state that it may increase the number of deaths for this. But if they say 28 people died with push button starts but 100 died from doing the same with a keyed ignition, you could see that this can potentially save lives.

Both types require a step to turn it off. I just don't get why the fact that it's a push versus a twist motion makes a difference.

I tend to think we could see a rise in incidents of cars being left on being a result of people being distracted, not due to car design. Our lives get busier, and it is now so easy to get distracted by our emails, phone calls, kids, etc. as we are rushing out of our cars and into our houses (or wherever).

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

Most people keep their keys together so if I need my house keys, I'm going to have to turn the car off and take the keys out of the ignition to get in the house. With keyless (despite the multiple warnings) I could theoretically take my keys and go into the house without having to turn the car off.

JDR76

I did think about that, but I'm not sure how many people who park in an attached garage need their keys to get into the house. I'm not sure if I'm in the minority or the majority, but I never lock the interior door from my garage to my house. I use the garage door opener, pull in, turn off the car, and walk in the house. That was the same for me with both a key (as on my Tacoma) and with my current fobs for my GS and Highlander.

What do most of you guys do?

Allen K

iTrader: (4)

I'm paranoid, I lock my garage door. I also lock my car doors when it's in the garage

tex2670

I don't think that statistic is very meaningful. As I stated before, most cars with auto stop/start systems also have keyless ignition. So you just can't tell. It's like comparing the number of carbon monoxide fatalities between cars with power windows vs. crank windows.

JDR76

To your point, I guess we'd have to know how many of those 28 fatalities had cars with an auto start/stop system to know if that played a part or not. I'm guessing that many of them did. If Lexus/Toyota represented a large portion, I have to wonder if this is happening mostly with the Hybrids.

We know that Toyota and Lexus have an audible signal outside the car if you take the key fob out of the car without turning the car off. Do you know if there are any manufacturers that do not have an audible signal?

scooky

I'm totally keyless at this point, so I do have to pay a little attention to what I'm doing. I don't have a keychain with multiple keys to act as a reminder that I may have left something behind. I almost got the slim wallet key card so that I didn't even need to remember my fob, just my wallet, which I sometimes forget.

The article I read said some people are intentionally leaving their fobs in the cars at home. I definitely wouldn't, but I can see an argument for it. If it's locked in the garage it's (relatively) safe. Keys have to go somewhere. Corner or the kitchen counter, spot by the door, left in the car, whatever. No need to lock the car either. I think this could defeat a lot of the safety features of the cars warning someone the car was still on, or keys still inside. I think if you do stuff like this, the few dings or buzzes you might get from the car get ignored as common background noise at some point.

Article said Ford will turn off if left at constant idle for 60 minutes regardless where the keys were. I expect you could still die if you were in the garage, but not likely if you were in the house. I'm not suggesting this is needed, just interesting.

I've been wondering if hybrids of different types could be more prone to this. They can be totally silent at rest. There may be scenarios where the engine comes on later to charge the battery. Maybe if the air/fan/radio/lights/seat heater were slowly eating battery.
Also wonder about a certain amount of off-gassing from some of the plug-in vehicles. Haven't heard anything bad yet though.