All-new 2019 Lexus ES to debut at Beijing Motorshow
04-21-18, 12:48 PM
#316
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by peteharvey
ES is best seller in its class, and against the midsize rear drive luxury segment too, however I only said that because spwolf always makes out that TMC products can do no wrong.
I mean, why bother making out that 7ES hasn't been released yet, so we don't know if the flywheel, torque converter and gearbox will really be in front of the front axle.
Why make out that we really don't know if 7ES has a simple single lower link front MacPherson strut?
I mean, why bother making out that 7ES hasn't been released yet, so we don't know if the flywheel, torque converter and gearbox will really be in front of the front axle.
Why make out that we really don't know if 7ES has a simple single lower link front MacPherson strut?
04-21-18, 12:49 PM
#317
However spwolf is pinning for the 7ES to compete and directly take sales away from the compact rear drive luxury German marques.
PS.
I do believe that midsize front drive luxury ES does compete with compact rear drive luxury Germans, but only in a "small" way - because like you say, the two are very different types of cars.
.
PS.
I do believe that midsize front drive luxury ES does compete with compact rear drive luxury Germans, but only in a "small" way - because like you say, the two are very different types of cars.
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 04-21-18 at 12:53 PM.
04-21-18, 12:52 PM
#318
Lexus Fanatic
No idea if they will. Based on my recent experience, my fathers ES is a far superior car than my sisters 3 series. But I am not the demographic of the 3 series customer. I am more in line of a ES age bracket. I also have a better appreciation of Lexus remote touch as well as Toyota navigation. My sisters infotainment system is pretty good as well.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 04-21-18 at 12:57 PM.
04-21-18, 02:19 PM
#319
Lexus Champion
ES is best seller in its class, and against the midsize rear drive luxury segment too, however I only said that because spwolf always makes out that TMC products can do no wrong.
I mean, why bother making out that 7ES hasn't been released yet, so we don't know if the flywheel, torque converter and gearbox will really be in front of the front axle.
Why make out that we really don't know if 7ES has a simple single lower link front MacPherson strut?
I mean, why bother making out that 7ES hasn't been released yet, so we don't know if the flywheel, torque converter and gearbox will really be in front of the front axle.
Why make out that we really don't know if 7ES has a simple single lower link front MacPherson strut?
04-21-18, 07:02 PM
#320
Im still amazed at some of the comments here about the ES. The A4, BMW, and C Class are not what a Lexus ES is supposed to be. That's why in spite the ES sells so well. I've driven family members A4's. They are cramp, boring and the Suspension beats you up on city roads. Engine noise inside the cabin sound bad, something their owners even complain about The engines in those cars at certain lower RPMs are lacking, and don't really feel to have much until the higher upper RPM's. The A4 is a VW like Cousin, and in some case looks and drives a lot the same. Wont find that from the Toyota to the Lexus.
The ES is Not a German Luxury car is not designed to be. Yes it understeer's just like most every Lexus does. But my 2013 having the bigger 18 tires, with Michelin tires gives me no problems with hanging with the average Joe in his same class German car on street legal roads. The 268 hp 3.5 V6 in the ES has a excellent power band. BTW people who own the German cars comment that they have a nice car, but not as nice as the ES when they ride in it. That's from them.
There is nothing wrong with the current 6th Gen ES for what is suppose to be. And Im sure the 2019 ES will be just that better and a fine car. Funny no one is comparing it to, the Maxima or like Japanese made car Guess some want a German - Lexus. Owning Lexus's for years, myself and some others like Lexus for being Lexus. Not German like.
The 6th Gen ES was a fine car, the 2019 will likely be that much better. But still will Not be a German like car. Period.
The ES is Not a German Luxury car is not designed to be. Yes it understeer's just like most every Lexus does. But my 2013 having the bigger 18 tires, with Michelin tires gives me no problems with hanging with the average Joe in his same class German car on street legal roads. The 268 hp 3.5 V6 in the ES has a excellent power band. BTW people who own the German cars comment that they have a nice car, but not as nice as the ES when they ride in it. That's from them.
There is nothing wrong with the current 6th Gen ES for what is suppose to be. And Im sure the 2019 ES will be just that better and a fine car. Funny no one is comparing it to, the Maxima or like Japanese made car Guess some want a German - Lexus. Owning Lexus's for years, myself and some others like Lexus for being Lexus. Not German like.
The 6th Gen ES was a fine car, the 2019 will likely be that much better. But still will Not be a German like car. Period.
04-21-18, 07:14 PM
#321
Yes, the ES sits in its "own unique" class, against other midsize FWD luxuries like Acura TL/TLX and other GM products etc.
However, the ES does steal "some" sales from the compact & midsize RWD luxuries esp the midsize RWD Genesis G80.
On a different note, most buyers purchase comparing apples to apples - comparing vehicles with similar specs or similar price, eg midsize front drive luxury ES vs midsize front drive luxury TLX.
However, some buyers actually purchase comparing apples to oranges, eg comparing an ES sedan to an RX SUV, or even comparing an ES midsize luxury to Camry midsize entry level.
The numbers are obviously small, but we cannot stop buyers from comparing apples to oranges.
Thus, there will be a "small" amount of cross shopping between midsize front drive ES and compact rear drive Germans...
EZZ is right.
At this price point, traditionally the 3 Series and C Class have been the two top sellers, esp the former, while the latter is making headway.
The buyers are mainly after the badge & styling of the 3 Series & C Class.
Most buyers are not after the RWD chassis dynamics of the compact RWD luxuries.
.
However, the ES does steal "some" sales from the compact & midsize RWD luxuries esp the midsize RWD Genesis G80.
On a different note, most buyers purchase comparing apples to apples - comparing vehicles with similar specs or similar price, eg midsize front drive luxury ES vs midsize front drive luxury TLX.
However, some buyers actually purchase comparing apples to oranges, eg comparing an ES sedan to an RX SUV, or even comparing an ES midsize luxury to Camry midsize entry level.
The numbers are obviously small, but we cannot stop buyers from comparing apples to oranges.
Thus, there will be a "small" amount of cross shopping between midsize front drive ES and compact rear drive Germans...
EZZ is right.
At this price point, traditionally the 3 Series and C Class have been the two top sellers, esp the former, while the latter is making headway.
The buyers are mainly after the badge & styling of the 3 Series & C Class.
Most buyers are not after the RWD chassis dynamics of the compact RWD luxuries.
.
Last edited by peteharvey; 04-22-18 at 10:31 PM.
04-21-18, 07:55 PM
#322
Lexus Fanatic
Im still amazed at some of the comments here about the ES. The A4, BMW, and C Class are not what a Lexus ES is supposed to be. That's why in spite the ES sells so well. I've driven family members A4's. They are cramp, boring and the Suspension beats you up on city roads. Engine noise inside the cabin sound bad, something their owners even complain about The engines in those cars at certain lower RPMs are lacking, and don't really feel to have much until the higher upper RPM's. The A4 is a VW like Cousin, and in some case looks and drives a lot the same. Wont find that from the Toyota to the Lexus.
The ES is Not a German Luxury car is not designed to be. Yes it understeer's just like most every Lexus does. But my 2013 having the bigger 18 tires, with Michelin tires gives me no problems with hanging with the average Joe in his same class German car on street legal roads. The 268 hp 3.5 V6 in the ES has a excellent power band. BTW people who own the German cars comment that they have a nice car, but not as nice as the ES when they ride in it. That's from them.
There is nothing wrong with the current 6th Gen ES for what is suppose to be. And Im sure the 2019 ES will be just that better and a fine car. Funny no one is comparing it to, the Maxima or like Japanese made car Guess some want a German - Lexus. Owning Lexus's for years, myself and some others like Lexus for being Lexus. Not German like.
The 6th Gen ES was a fine car, the 2019 will likely be that much better. But still will Not be a German like car. Period.
The ES is Not a German Luxury car is not designed to be. Yes it understeer's just like most every Lexus does. But my 2013 having the bigger 18 tires, with Michelin tires gives me no problems with hanging with the average Joe in his same class German car on street legal roads. The 268 hp 3.5 V6 in the ES has a excellent power band. BTW people who own the German cars comment that they have a nice car, but not as nice as the ES when they ride in it. That's from them.
There is nothing wrong with the current 6th Gen ES for what is suppose to be. And Im sure the 2019 ES will be just that better and a fine car. Funny no one is comparing it to, the Maxima or like Japanese made car Guess some want a German - Lexus. Owning Lexus's for years, myself and some others like Lexus for being Lexus. Not German like.
The 6th Gen ES was a fine car, the 2019 will likely be that much better. But still will Not be a German like car. Period.
04-22-18, 05:47 AM
#323
Lexus Fanatic
I personally would also take an ES over a 3Series or C Class or A4 also. Then, I never would have considered one of those cars in the first place. Hence the ES doesn’t really compete with those cars.
04-23-18, 04:00 AM
#324
Like many others here in Europe, I am also looking between A4 and A6 constantly. And as many others, main reason for even considering A4 is the price, not the smaller size. Audi's are everywhere, it is best selling premium brand and people get mostly FWD 2.0 TDI due to prices/taxes (was 3.0 TDI Quattro 10 years ago). Main talking points are badge, exterior design, interior design, reasonable engine when it comes to speed/efficiency and lower cost to maintain vs BMW/MB... How it handles at limit, with most being 2.0tdi and fwd is not that important.
04-23-18, 06:44 AM
#326
Pole Position
04-23-18, 06:55 AM
#327
Pole Position
Hmm maybe the ES will get 225 or thereabouts to differentiate it from the Avalon? Its nice to see Toyota is starting offer power differentiation between its model, as small as it is.
04-23-18, 10:03 AM
#328
The IS and ES are too different vehicles aimed at two different entry level buyers. The ES buyer is not the same buyer as the IS, GS, or LS buyer. Middle American who loves Starbucks, has a nice house, make a $100K or more and perhaps grew up a Toyota owner or an American buyer. This is exactly who the ES appeals to. Much older than the IS buyer.
Nobody said it was.
Nobody said it was.
04-23-18, 10:12 AM
#329
Lexus Fanatic
I dont think I would have ever gotten an ES over 3/C/A4 before... but if they continue what they are doing good with other announced Lexus vehicles - like sportier drive (does not have to be the sportiest, just competent - just like Camry is vs competition) and better looking inside/out, including materials, etc, I would consider ES as next vehicle.
04-23-18, 10:25 AM
#330
Lexus Fanatic
This, exactly. Coming from the Millennial generation I can tell you I'd never consider the ES. I've owned two IS' and two GS' in my lifetime (I come from a family that only drove Toyota/Lexus). The ES was and will always be my moms car. If Lexus gets rid of the GS I'll be off to another brand (as hard and sad as that would be, lol).