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I don't understand the argument though. Trucks are no less capable than before (they're even more capable actually). What's the issue with offering models within the lineup that are luxurious but still highly capable? As Steve mentioned SUVs, wouldn't the same logic apply to Range Rovers? Should those have remained stripped down too?
We saw the new Sierra tonight. It was a 1500 model that looked to be top trim. Very well done by GM. There was a window sticker but no price on it. Looked to be about a $60K truck. Interior looked good but it was looked do we could not sit inside, The interior looks similar to the last gen which is good I guess. Looks to me that this is draws quo for GM. Should sell well. Next to the 2018 Sierra, it's hard to tell that is the new model.
We have a winner! I''m not too fond of the new Silverado's looks and think the current one looks much more bad a$$. However this Sierra looks great!
I wish they'd release the output numbers for the engines. Long live the small-block V8.
The output numbers are going to be the same as they always are...about 20 years behind the competition. I am sorry, but the 5.3L is a dinosaur. By modern standards, so is the 5.7L Hemi in the Rams, however, the 5.7L is superior in just about every way. Last gen 5.3L SBC had 355HP AT THE CRANK. Given powertrain loss, you might be looking at 280? at the wheels. The old pushrod single-cam V8 is showing its age. The 6.2L V8 is a much better engine, with 420hp at the crank, (375? to the wheels), but it still doesn't compete with the Rams. GM also likes to put 3.08 differential gearing in their trucks. the 5.3L engine with those gears? Gutless. Even the 6.2 would be sluggish. the highest axle option on a half-ton GM truck is 3.42. On the ram, its 3.92 (4.10 if you get the R/T), and with that the limited slip is standard. So a 5.7L Hemi with 395HP and 410 lb-ft with standard gearing (3.21) and the 8 speed trans will obliterate a 6.2L Chevy with 3.42 on acceleration. Put 3.92's in the ram and its keeping up with corvette's in the 0-60 times. Ask me how I know
Bottom line is, GM needs to get its act together. They still can't make an interior worth a damn (although that's improving), but if the don't improve on their powertrains and bring them out of the 90's, they are gonna have a bad time. The LS engines are an outstanding platform, but they need to be larger and have DOHC setups to truly catch up.
Originally Posted by geko29
Engineers: We're going to move to aluminum on the next generation to save weight and improve fuel economy.
Marketing: NO! We've been absolutely ruthless about Ford's switch to aluminum, if we switch now the entire customer base will know we're short-sighted hypocrites! What else can we use instead?
Engineers: Carbon fiber is very light, but insanely expensive and incredibly difficult to work with.
Marketing: Done!
Engineers: That'll drive up costs and kill sales.
Marketing: We'll only put it on the $60k+ models that are high-margin anyway. The rest of the lineup will keep the existing steel bed.
Engineers: Isn't that short-sighted and hypocritical?
Marketing: Hush you.
Interior looked good but it was looked do we could not sit inside, The interior looks similar to the last gen which is good I guess. Looks to me that this is draws quo for GM.
The output numbers are going to be the same as they always are...about 20 years behind the competition. I am sorry, but the 5.3L is a dinosaur. By modern standards, so is the 5.7L Hemi in the Rams, however, the 5.7L is superior in just about every way. Last gen 5.3L SBC had 355HP AT THE CRANK. Given powertrain loss, you might be looking at 280? at the wheels. The old pushrod single-cam V8 is showing its age. The 6.2L V8 is a much better engine, with 420hp at the crank, (375? to the wheels), but it still doesn't compete with the Rams. GM also likes to put 3.08 differential gearing in their trucks. the 5.3L engine with those gears? Gutless. Even the 6.2 would be sluggish. the highest axle option on a half-ton GM truck is 3.42. On the ram, its 3.92 (4.10 if you get the R/T), and with that the limited slip is standard. So a 5.7L Hemi with 395HP and 410 lb-ft with standard gearing (3.21) and the 8 speed trans will obliterate a 6.2L Chevy with 3.42 on acceleration. Put 3.92's in the ram and its keeping up with corvette's in the 0-60 times. Ask me how I know
Bottom line is, GM needs to get its act together. They still can't make an interior worth a damn (although that's improving), but if the don't improve on their powertrains and bring them out of the 90's, they are gonna have a bad time. The LS engines are an outstanding platform, but they need to be larger and have DOHC setups to truly catch up.
That was funny.
It gets worse for 2019.
The new generation makes you choose between the max towing package or the off-road package. This is ridiculous. The others let you have both. What's even worse about this is that GM has made the stupid decision to require you to get the Off-Road package if you want a transfer case with low range. The deepest gears on the off-road package are 3.23's I believe. You have to get the tow package to get 3.42's(which are still pretty high gears IMO, given that Ford offers 3.31, 3.55, 3.73, and 4.10).
So you're now stuck between choosing a truck that can work well off-road or tow heavier loads. The only exception is if you order a 6.2 Z71, but that's only available on the highest trims. Gone are the days where a blue collar worker could buy a base truck and have off-road capability and the ability to tow heavier loads. At least from GM. Those high gears, btw, are the reason why GM touts great fuel economy. Anything would get better economy if you chop the ***** off of it. This will also be a problem for off-roaders who prefer to run bigger tires......they're already geared so high to start. Bigger tires are going to make it worse.
The way I see it, Ford and RAM are the only 2 serious contenders in the half-ton work truck segment.
No point debating. I'm a Chevy guy. The 6.2 is the best engine you can get in a 1500 truck, period. It's a Corvette motor for Pete's sake. I've also never seen a Ram post faster numbers with the Hemi than the top dog Chevy. The last gen Ram is actually about the same acceleration wise as the last gen Chevy 5.3 0-60. The new Ram is lighter but then so is the new Chevy/GMC with a significant amount of more power. 5.7 395/410 vs 6.2 420/460?
Of course there is a point in debating. This is a Car (and Truck)-Chat forum. That is the primary reason this forum exists in the first place...to discuss and debate vehicles.
No point debating. I'm a Chevy guy. The 6.2 is the best engine you can get in a 1500 truck, period. It's a Corvette motor for Pete's sake. I've also never seen a Ram post faster numbers with the Hemi than the top dog Chevy. The last gen Ram is actually about the same acceleration wise as the last gen Chevy 5.3 0-60. The new Ram is lighter but then so is the new Chevy/GMC with a significant amount of more power. 5.7 395/410 vs 6.2 420/460?
It would be nice if GM offered the 6.2 in all trims.
I would have been very tempted to buy one, but I'm not going to spend LTZ or Denali money on something I beat up off-road.
Of course there is a point in debating. This is a Car (and Truck)-Chat forum. That is the primary reason this forum exists in the first place...to discuss and debate vehicles.
Lol, oh of course. I live for ClubLexus Car chat. I guess what I meant was that no Ford guy is going to change a Chevy guy, and vice versa. The F150 is mighty impressive, but I would never buy one over a Chevy/GMC. I have a relative that could get me a not insignificant friends/family Ford discount and even that wouldn't sway me. I don't care if the Ecoboost makes 600hp, nobody is ever going to convince me that a ttV6 is better than a Chevy small-block, slightly detuned Corvette V8. For a million reasons, but just the sound alone. Also, as impressive as the F150 is, it just doesn't "wow" me, at all, like a loaded out Sierra Denali. Same for Yukon vs Expedition, Escalade vs Navigator (even though the GM vehicles are both older).
Originally Posted by BrettJacks
It would be nice if GM offered the 6.2 in all trims.
I would have been very tempted to buy one, but I'm not going to spend LTZ or Denali money on something I beat up off-road.
I agree with this, I don't understand why you couldn't get it in the Suburban either. (Actually, you can now but you have to buy the $80,000 version) Power wise, the 5.3 is outclassed pretty badly I will admit. Though I would hardly call it the penalty box that some do. 0-60 in 7 seconds for a huge Suburban is hardly slow.
Lol, oh of course. I live for ClubLexus Car chat. I guess what I meant was that no Ford guy is going to change a Chevy guy, and vice versa. The F150 is mighty impressive, but I would never buy one over a Chevy/GMC. I have a relative that could get me a not insignificant friends/family Ford discount and even that wouldn't sway me. I don't care if the Ecoboost makes 600hp, nobody is ever going to convince me that a ttV6 is better than a Chevy small-block, slightly detuned Corvette V8. For a million reasons, but just the sound alone. Also, as impressive as the F150 is, it just doesn't "wow" me, at all, like a loaded out Sierra Denali. Same for Yukon vs Expedition, Escalade vs Navigator (even though the GM vehicles are both older).
What did you think of the newer F-150's aluminum skin and structure? I wasn't impressed with it at all...to me, it felt like a tin can, though it does significantly lighten the truck for better maneuverability and gas mileage. But, in many ways, I'd feel more at home in a Chevy/GMC or Dodge Ram 1500....particularly with the Ram's superb (by truck standards) driving and riding-comfort.
Chevy made a big deal, in their ads, about the strength of the Ford's aluminum bed vs. the Silverado's steel with the rock-dropping ads...but, let's be honest. Who's going to actually do something like that (drop heavy boulders from high above) into a pickup-truck bed in real life? That kind of stuff is usually reserved for industrial-grade vehicles or railroad cars.
the interior is really bad compared to the Ram. I thought this was a redesign it looks like the 2013 interior. Big truck and they only give 2 USB ports in the front and back. Ram has 4 each. I do like the tailgate and the rear camera view features. GM needs to ditch the horrid column shifter
Just went thru this thread and saw this. As a comparison, my 2000 Chevy 2500 Extended Cab Long Bed 4x4 with 6.0L engine has 16" wheels. Could not believe how "relatively" cheap tires are for 16s.
Lol, oh of course. I live for ClubLexus Car chat. I guess what I meant was that no Ford guy is going to change a Chevy guy, and vice versa. The F150 is mighty impressive, but I would never buy one over a Chevy/GMC. I have a relative that could get me a not insignificant friends/family Ford discount and even that wouldn't sway me. I don't care if the Ecoboost makes 600hp, nobody is ever going to convince me that a ttV6 is better than a Chevy small-block, slightly detuned Corvette V8. For a million reasons, but just the sound alone. Also, as impressive as the F150 is, it just doesn't "wow" me, at all, like a loaded out Sierra Denali. Same for Yukon vs Expedition, Escalade vs Navigator (even though the GM vehicles are both older).
I agree with this, I don't understand why you couldn't get it in the Suburban either. (Actually, you can now but you have to buy the $80,000 version) Power wise, the 5.3 is outclassed pretty badly I will admit. Though I would hardly call it the penalty box that some do. 0-60 in 7 seconds for a huge Suburban is hardly slow.
The 5.0 in the F-150 is no slouch though. I love mine. Might slap a tune on it after the warranty is up. The engine holds its own just fine in the Stang vs the much larger engines in the Camaro and Challenger. Stock internals are built to withstand a supercharger. If I were a wealthy man I'd install one.
Originally Posted by mmarshall
What did you think of the newer F-150's aluminum skin and structure? I wasn't impressed with it at all...to me, it felt like a tin can, though it does significantly lighten the truck for better maneuverability and gas mileage. But, in many ways, I'd feel more at home in a Chevy/GMC or Dodge Ram 1500....particularly with the Ram's superb (by truck standards) driving and riding-comfort.
Chevy made a big deal, in their ads, about the strength of the Ford's aluminum bed vs. the Silverado's steel with the rock-dropping ads...but, let's be honest. Who's going to actually do something like that (drop heavy boulders from high above) into a pickup-truck bed in real life? That kind of stuff is usually reserved for industrial-grade vehicles or railroad cars.
Eh, I don't really see the tin can argument. Having had mine for a year now and put 20,000 miles on it, I can honestly say the truck is and feels solid. I beat it up off-road on a regular basis. It feels planted just fine on the road once you get rid of the factory shocks. Shocks have always been a weak point for Ford and I wish they'd fix that. I put some Bilstein 5100s on the rear for about $150 and it was the best investment I've made. I'm going to do the fronts soon, if only because the bilstein front shocks are adjustable and I can use them to level the truck.
Originally Posted by 4TehNguyen
the interior is really bad compared to the Ram. I thought this was a redesign it looks like the 2013 interior. Big truck and they only give 2 USB ports in the front and back. Ram has 4 each. I do like the tailgate and the rear camera view features. GM needs to ditch the horrid column shifter
Agreed on this. GM has been the weakest on interiors for quite some time now, at least back to 2000(although I'll say that they generally held up better than the RAM interiors of the 90's and 2000's). They feel too car-like, especially the 07-13 generation. And the buttons remind me of those crappy bubble-buttons on the remote to an $80 DVD player(Although they seem to have fixed that for the 2019).
I can't agree on the column shifter though. One of the big reasons I sought out my truck with the bench seat was so that I could have a column shifter. That's just how I prefer my automatics in trucks. It's out of the way, but also isn't a rotary ****(RAM) or push button(a growing number of Ford's other vehicles), neither of which I'm fond of. The only time I enjoy a console/floor mounted shifter is in a car or anything with a manual. Plus, having that seat in the middle is great for when you have company
03-07-18, 11:10 AM
