2019 Kia K900
#76
Lexus Fanatic
#77
drives cars
That's encouraging - maybe picking up a used G80 will be easier than I thought.
I think it's a visibility problem. Everyone who I have spoken with about Genesis still thinks it's just a fancy Hyundai and has no idea the new brand exists.
I think it's a visibility problem. Everyone who I have spoken with about Genesis still thinks it's just a fancy Hyundai and has no idea the new brand exists.
#78
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
agreed, it's harder than ever to launch a brand in a world filled with social media, fake news, everyone's-a-blogger-celeb farce...
#79
Lexus Champion
#80
Lexus Fanatic
The lower the transaction price, the better for the shopper, especially for someone who is window shopping and not seriously looking to buy a Genesis. But steep discounts are an indication that actual sales are (much) worse than expectations, signalling that either Genesis management forecast incorrectly or that no one wants to buy the vehicle (G90) or the brand (i.e. the car or the brand is a failure).
#81
Lexus Fanatic
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this boils down to a case of marketing conumdrum
do you build a better product (much better than existing line-up) in hopes of raising the brand value
or do you build brand equity first and step up your products (the whole line-up) gradually?
or do you stick to what you do best, the budget segment and be an accessible brand?
do you build a better product (much better than existing line-up) in hopes of raising the brand value
or do you build brand equity first and step up your products (the whole line-up) gradually?
or do you stick to what you do best, the budget segment and be an accessible brand?
#82
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
i look at it this way... hyundai made the g80/g90/k900 for their home market first and sales 'overseas' are a bonus. sure they'd love those models to rocket up in sales (compared to similar competitors) but for all the reasons we've discussed ad nauseum that's highly unlikely no matter how great the product, dealers or marketing campaign in today's world. lexus launched with a bang at a time when the german products were possibly at an all time low (smart play by toyota!!). german cars back then had outrageous prices for poor quality, poor tech in many cases, and were very inefficient (they truly were built like tanks, lol). today that's not the case.
#83
Racer
Thread Starter
I have spent some time on the Genesis forums and it seems that the $50K prices are for 2017 models, most with miles on them. The best deals seem to be leases thru Genesis Financial which have an $8000 incentive that is not available for purchases. Some of these leased cars are going for around $60K including the incentive.
#84
Lexus Fanatic
this boils down to a case of marketing conumdrum
do you build a better product (much better than existing line-up) in hopes of raising the brand value
or do you build brand equity first and step up your products (the whole line-up) gradually?
or do you stick to what you do best, the budget segment and be an accessible brand?
do you build a better product (much better than existing line-up) in hopes of raising the brand value
or do you build brand equity first and step up your products (the whole line-up) gradually?
or do you stick to what you do best, the budget segment and be an accessible brand?
so success/failure is purely subjective?
i look at it this way... hyundai made the g80/g90/k900 for their home market first and sales 'overseas' are a bonus. sure they'd love those models to rocket up in sales (compared to similar competitors) but for all the reasons we've discussed ad nauseum that's highly unlikely no matter how great the product, dealers or marketing campaign in today's world. lexus launched with a bang at a time when the german products were possibly at an all time low (smart play by toyota!!). german cars back then had outrageous prices for poor quality, poor tech in many cases, and were very inefficient (they truly were built like tanks, lol). today that's not the case.
i look at it this way... hyundai made the g80/g90/k900 for their home market first and sales 'overseas' are a bonus. sure they'd love those models to rocket up in sales (compared to similar competitors) but for all the reasons we've discussed ad nauseum that's highly unlikely no matter how great the product, dealers or marketing campaign in today's world. lexus launched with a bang at a time when the german products were possibly at an all time low (smart play by toyota!!). german cars back then had outrageous prices for poor quality, poor tech in many cases, and were very inefficient (they truly were built like tanks, lol). today that's not the case.
As the #1 most valuable auto brand in the world, Toyota brings enormous brand equity into things they want to do. Back when Lexus was introduced, Toyota was perceived to be making better products than what Hyundai is doing now. Toyota has a large RWD at the time, a truck, sports cars, sedans and a few SUVs.
The struggles of Hyundai and their Genesis or KIA brands are IMO equivalent to the struggle Toyota has with acceptance with their Tundra, Lexus F products, and former Scion failure. GM also has a hard time with perceived acceptance with their Cadillac sedans. Toyota also failed with their Scion no haggle pricing.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 03-12-18 at 11:41 AM.
#85
Lexus Fanatic
Although one generally cannot fault the reliability of Toyota drivetrains (they have always been among the best), I don't think one can say that the quality of brand-new Hyundais and Kias today is worse than what Toyota built almost 30 years ago. Hyundais and Kias have some of the longest warranties in the American market for a reason. They also seem to use more solid materials in the interior, sheet metal, and trim than most Toyotas do today.
GM also has a hard time with perceived acceptance with their Cadillac sedans.
Toyota also failed with their Scion no haggle pricing.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-12-18 at 12:52 PM.
#86
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
LexsCTJill - exactly which makes the lexus success all the more remarkable, but timing is (almost) everything, plus luck, but it was not luck that the original ls400 blew everyone's mind when it was launched with an equally awesome marketing campaign. i don't think the auto world has seen anything like that since.
#87
Lexus Fanatic
LexsCTJill - exactly which makes the lexus success all the more remarkable, but timing is (almost) everything, plus luck, but it was not luck that the original ls400 blew everyone's mind when it was launched with an equally awesome marketing campaign. i don't think the auto world has seen anything like that since.
#88
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
tesla's marketing is minimal, it's far from a near perfect product and the opportunity has been weak at best... tesla could only dream of selling what the ls400 sold... and tesla is more 'cult of personality' (musk) which does give it media hype for sure.
about product, the ls400 was a large step up from what had gone before, but the tesla though is revolutionary. but revolutionaries mostly end up failing or dead, superceded by what comes next. i could see that happening to tesla, with what's going on at gm, jaguar, bmw, and many others. but tesla may well end up being a huge battery supplier. but if they can't get the tesla 3 production volume a LOT higher, they're in a load of trouble on the car side.
back the k900, it was nowhere near a perfect product, with little opportunity and basically no marketing as far as i could tell... = #fail it's not a terrible car, it's just nothing special. they'll need to do a lot better for the next gen.
#89
Lexus Fanatic
I don't go on Genesis forums, I have not heard of any discounts where you can get them for 50K or around 20K off of MSRP though there are a few here that have gotten some really good lease deals on them. Are you sure they are not just clearing out some 2017's with some really good offers? It is not like there are no Lexus models getting steep discounts, there are some that have said they got or saw GS-F's and RC-F's for 15K+ off MSRP, GS had some hefty discounts too.
#90
Lexus Fanatic
Fact checked. Numbers are down since changing to Genesis. G80 sales are worst since 2010. Down to start 2018 as well.
.http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales...s/genesis-g80/
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/hyundai/hyundai-genesis/hyundai-genesis-sedan/.