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Old Dec 20, 2017 | 06:39 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by mjeds
but at the end of the day it's still a GM product..
It's an Opel product. And Opel products, recently, have been well above average in reliability.

at least it still has an actual shift lever.
Yep.....Opel hasn't joined the E-shift craze yet.
Old Dec 20, 2017 | 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
It's an Opel product. And Opel products, recently, have been well above average
I thought all Buicks say GM on the door jam?
Old Dec 20, 2017 | 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by tex2670
Omission of rain-sensing wipers in this class of vehicle is inexcusable; as would any rationale that they "don't want to compete with Cadillac". My '12 CX-9 has them. Silly.
While I respect your view on it, I'm going to disagree. I'm not a big fan of rain-sensors myself. First, if the sensors mess up during an automated car wash, it can cause real problems (some vehicles have an on/off switch for that to disable the system). Second, it's fine if the glass is otherwise clean, with only water droplets on it....it won't harm the glass. But, if, as with many windshields most of the time, you have got even small amounts of dust, dirt, salt, small tree/branch droppings, bird/insect-droppings, etc, on it, and then a few raindrops fall and trigger the sensors, those sensors will start rubbing and abrading the dirt and contaminents against the glass as the wipers start going back and forth. The result can be fine arc-shaped lines and scratches to appear in the glass...which gradually build up with time. That's also why it's important to replace wiper blades regularly, to have good rubber on the blades that has not deteriorated and become abrasive.
Old Dec 20, 2017 | 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
It's an Opel product. And Opel products, recently, have been well above average in reliability.
Yep.....Opel hasn't joined the E-shift craze yet.
Buick is a GM product.. I don't give a rats behind where the design came from, it is built by GM, therefore it is a GM product. end of story.
Old Dec 20, 2017 | 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
I thought all Buicks say GM on the door jam?

So? That doesn't tell you where the platform originated. Technically, yes, it is GM, but specifically, GM's Euro-branch, Opel/Vauxhall.
Old Dec 20, 2017 | 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
So? .
It is still a GM product.
Old Dec 20, 2017 | 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mjeds
Buick is a GM product.. I don't give a rats behind where the design came from, it is built by GM, therefore it is a GM product. end of story.
Well, rats-behind or not, where it originates often determines just what you are getting for your money. Sometimes one needs to look beyond simple nameplates.

Take the old Cadillac Cimarron, for existence. Yes, it had the Cadillac wreath-and-crest on the hood and trunk, but what was it in reality?....a redone Chevy J-car Cavalier with a wheezy, carburated 81 HP four that wouldn't get out of its own way.
Old Dec 20, 2017 | 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mjeds
Buick is a GM product.. I don't give a rats behind where the design came from, it is built by GM, therefore it is a GM product. end of story.
Exactly. I don't understand why it's such a dispute. Is Lexus a Toyota product? Yes
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Old Dec 20, 2017 | 06:51 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
Take the old Cadillac Cimarron, for existence. Yes, it had the Cadillac wreath-and-crest on the hood and trunk, but what was it in reality?....
A GM product?
Old Dec 20, 2017 | 06:52 PM
  #40  
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Anyhow, I think we've gotten off-topic.....the new Enclave Avenir.
Old Dec 20, 2017 | 06:53 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
A GM product?

One of GM's worst....though I actually liked the looks of it. Underneath the skin, though, it was a POS.
Old Dec 20, 2017 | 06:54 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
One of GM's.
Yes. One of GM's cars that they offered.
Old Dec 20, 2017 | 07:03 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
Exactly. I don't understand why it's such a dispute. Is Lexus a Toyota product? Yes
lipstick on a pig.

IMO GM cars look great but are junk.
Old Dec 20, 2017 | 08:17 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
It's an Opel product.
Are we talking about enclave?
Old Dec 20, 2017 | 10:05 PM
  #45  
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So basically this Avenir thing is like the GMC Denali, a clever way to get you to pay a few thousand dollars more for a bit of chrome trim, big wheels, and fake wood. At least with the Denali you get the big 6.2 liter V8 vs the standard 5.3 V8 in your regular Suburban/Yukon/Tahoe/Silverado/Sierra. The Avenir line, looks like they're selling the same engines as the base models.



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