mmarshall

All true to an extent, but there is still no denying the basic simplicity of the electric motor....no mechanical parts inside except for one shaft, no cooling system with associated parts and coolant, no ignition system with associated parts, no conventional lubrication system and its associated parts, no emission system and associated parts, no turbos and associated ducting, no fuel-system and its plumbing/injectors, and no exhaust system and its expensive catalyst. NONE of those parts to service, repair, or replace.

I get the first two oil changes on the house...that's a dealer-perk that the local GM dealership tosses in, not from the factory. (and, perhaps justified, since GM cut back free OnStar and XM satellite membership on a new car to just three months now). And GM now requires Dexos-1-certified oil (which is either full or semi-synthetic), for even non-turbo gas engines....so oil changes would, otherwise, cost more than with conventional dino/petroleum-based oil. What I find interesting is that the 3.6L V6 uses 5W-30, a viscosity-grade that has not seen much use in new vehicles for some time, as most engines have gone to lower, thinner grades....some as low as 0W-20. I actually like the idea of still having the 30 on the higher end.....it will provide better hot-weather protection in the summer, with minimal compromise at very cold temperatures.

LexBob2

Correct on the BMW maintenance program. They recently went to 3 years vs. 4 previously and removed some items from coverage like wiper blades, brakes etc.

mmarshall

Hard to believe, though, that all a new BMW needs in the first 4 years is oil changes. If that is the case, it might (?) explain some of their unreliability.

LexBob2

I don't understand. The 3 or 4 years is a routine maintenance program which used to run the duration of the warranty (4 years) and now runs for 3 years (the typical length of a lease).

Toys4RJill

Modern cars today need very little maintenance in the first four or five years. It's a non issue. It's all pre-designed. Anyone buying a car with a belt or serious maintenance needs in the first four years is likely not buying a very modern vehicle. I can think of any car that currently still has a belt.

BMW is just offering it to get people in be door. So called free maintenance has been offered for years.

mmarshall

The average driver in the U.S. does about 10-12K a year. Over 4 years, that's about 45K miles, give or take a little. That, IMO, is asking quite a lot for original coolant, transmission fluid (if the transmission can actually be drained....some can't), and some of the other underhood fluids. A general good rule of thumb is inspection of these fluids at 15K miles, and replacement at maybe 30K. Oil changes, of course, will be determined by the oil-computer.

NateJG

In Michigan, the dealer is supposed to tell you if the Misc/Shop charge is over $10 - and not “spring” it on you.

My issue is that they didn’t follow the rule - and while they did charge (and I do not challenge) for Oil Disposal, what I do and did balk at is that they charged $28 for shop supplies - when even a non-mechanic knows that the only thing you need to take from the shop during fluid changes is soap/water/towel — and if you’re sloppy, Rags!

Consider it this way - You go to a hotel. It’s $100 plus taxes. Same everywhere. You check out, and they charge you for cleaning supplies. You can afford it, but it simply takes away from the experience.

I can afford $28. If they were smart enough to know that they need to have shop supplies, then they should be smart enough to hide the shop supplies in the price. Not quote me one thing, and then add on some really irritating and insulting charge.

I am not a rookie. I put myself through college as a mechanic, then a technician, then in charge of seravice for the Canadian and Great Lakes U.S. regions, was on the last Board of Governers for the now-defunct SAE Service Technician’s Society, was a guest lecturer at the University of Wisconsin on the topic of “Managing for Customer Satisfaction”, and was the manager of Market Research and Planning for North American operations (5 divisions). And ended my career as the President and Owner of my own consulting company.

So who cares about my pedigree? I agree, I just opened up myself for ridicule from some of the so-inclined members of this board. it means nothing, as I’m now retired and enjoying life - but I can offer that what made the company from which I retired after 30 years enjoy over 75% market penetration in Heavy Truck Transmissions is one thing: We made the customer happy!

A simple way is this: Always come in under the quoted price - and never surprise the customer - especially with questionable charges.


I forgave this dealer for two previous faux pas: they damaged the plastic rocker panel covers last year - and one of them had been recently replaced by the damage caused by another Toyota dealer. It was a minor blemish on a brand-new panel.

The second time I forgave them is two months ago when - despite and after I specifically told them TWICE during the write-up that it was important to me that they lift the car up without damaging the plastic panels - they damaged both of them.

The repair bill for the two panels was $907.66 - parts only - for 1 75850-0E020 MOULDING and 1 75860-0E020 MOULDING.

I figured that, by now, they were the best place in town to lift up my car without damaging it. (As the Svc Mgr told me they had a “teaching Monent” out of the experience), so I made an in-person visit to the shop to ask if they were interested in having me as a return customer.

So, to the fellow above that suggested that I had some pent up animosity - close - call it attentive apprehension - -but I liked the people, location, and look of the dealership - so I gave them another chance.

They blew it with the insulting $28 charge for Cocoa, Cheezy crackers, and Peanut butter cookies (or whatever they want me to believe they needed an additional 28 bucks for).

And to reiterate what you may have glossed-over in my original post is this: they didn’t charge me for shop supplies for the previous gearbox change, nor did they charge me for shop supplies for the previous oil change and tire rotation; however, not only did they now charge me $28 for shop supplies when I merely had both the gearbox oils AND the engine oils changed, when I questioned/challenged the now-additional charge, the writer insulted me by telling me that he’d refund the shop charge but wouldn’t service my car in the future.

(I received a refund check in today’s mail - so I guess they got my message - and I got theirs.)

mmarshall

They may or may not actually label it as such....a disposal fee. If they don't, then, most likely, it is just figured into the basic charge.

We can, of course, thank the EPA for much of that fee...they are generally the ones that have made it more difficult and expensive for businesses to dispose of the materials used for auto repair. When I used to do my own oil changes, for example, I just took the used oil down to the the local gas station in a leakproof container (most still had actual repair bays in those days), and poured it into the big tank that the station held old oil in. They actually encouraged do-it-yourselfers to do that.....the station often just sold the oil to re-cyclers, and it was used for heating-oil in the wintertime. Now, of course, the process is far more complex and expensive.

I agree, BTW, that $28, at today's prices, is nothing to raise the roof about.

Toys4RJill

You really need to go somewhere else.

mmarshall

Sounds like some pretty impressive credentials. I can't speak for any of the others here, but I will certainly show you some respect for them. But that still doesn't change my mind that $28 is nothing to raise the roof about. Like I replied to Steve, above (and you, with your extensive training and experience, surely must know)......a shop can ether charge the disposal fee overtly, up front, printed right out on the bill, or covertly, buried down in the other charges somewhere and unlabeled.

Good. So now, is the case now closed for you? If so, then Jill may be right....next time, use a different shop. But you probably will have a hard time avoiding at least some disposal fees wherever you go...it's like trying to avoid sales-tax LOL.

mmarshall

Exactly. Call me a wimp if you want, but I preferred not to fall.

Toys4RJill

That is pretty much what it needs. Most cars require very little maintenance during the warranty period. My 14 Corolla and 09 Matrix cost approximately $1000 total for the first first four years. It's staggered so one year is a bit more while the other is a little less. Selling and designing cars is highly competitive.

I would expect your Buick to have about $1200 for the first four years give or take. That is assuming you drive the average miles per year.

Costs for a BMW are likely about $1750 for a small 3 series.

(Brakes and tires excluded) although tires should last the warranty period.

Toys4RJill

I don't think anyone is calling you a wimp.

mmarshall

I know.....I was being facetious. I'm just not that impressed with stocks....I find them overly-speculative. I like to know what I'm getting....and avoid a lot of risk.

mmarshall

I may be wrong, but your Corolla and Matrix, I believe, have drum brakes in the rear.....they are often cheaper to replace than disc-brake pads/rotors. (Drum brakes, for a couple of technical reasons, also make better parking-brakes than discs).

Being (now) retired, and seeking to avoid peak traffic periods here in the D.C. area and their notorious backups (which, trust me, like those around L.A., have to be experienced to be believed), I usually drive less than the national average....mostly during the middle of the day from 10-3, except for Sunday mornings.

As far as I'm concerned, if brake-pads, even in today's dense stop and go traffic, don't last at least 30K miles before they are either at minimum thickness for most state-inspections or down to the wear-screechers, then one of two things are the problem. Either the designers economized too much by making the pads too thin to start with (a thicker pad, of course, especially wth quality friction-material, costs more money to produce), or one simply has too heavy a foot on the brake pedal.....which, of course, often means that one also has too heavy a foot on the gas.