I shoudn’t have taken my Lexus to a Toyota Dealer
#61
Lexus Fanatic
newer cars have no timing belts. Most modern cars have gone to chains. Water pump should last the life of the car. Spark plugs last a lot longer than ever before. As for electric cars eliminating maintenance, it's not exactly like that. The cost of an electric car is a lot higher in almost every configuration It all offsets the costs. Plus, most modern cars have very limited maintenance needs for the first 10 years of the car.
Your new Buick LaCrosse should have minimal costs as per maintenance.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-18-17 at 04:12 PM.
#62
Lexus Champion
An BMW requires 4 services under the warranty period. None should be major. All oil changes. All built into the MSRP of the car. The service is not really free. I am a little surprised they went to this type of offering. Perhaps to keep the cars returning to BMW during the lease period to enhance resale. Don't know. Maybe?.
I always found Lexus vs Toyota very interesting. An Avalon needs no maintenance service at 16K service while the ES350 coming out of the same plant in Kentucky needs a full maintenance service. Then at 32K the ES requires a brake service with fluid change while the Avalon only needs a brake service. Maintanenxe schedules for cars are designed to extract a certain amount of dollars out of the customer at specific price points.
I always found Lexus vs Toyota very interesting. An Avalon needs no maintenance service at 16K service while the ES350 coming out of the same plant in Kentucky needs a full maintenance service. Then at 32K the ES requires a brake service with fluid change while the Avalon only needs a brake service. Maintanenxe schedules for cars are designed to extract a certain amount of dollars out of the customer at specific price points.
#63
Lexus Fanatic
Hard to believe, though, that all a new BMW needs in the first 4 years is oil changes. If that is the case, it might (?) explain some of their unreliability.
#64
Lexus Champion
I don't understand. The 3 or 4 years is a routine maintenance program which used to run the duration of the warranty (4 years) and now runs for 3 years (the typical length of a lease).
#65
Lexus Fanatic
BMW is just offering it to get people in be door. So called free maintenance has been offered for years.
#66
Lexus Fanatic
The average driver in the U.S. does about 10-12K a year. Over 4 years, that's about 45K miles, give or take a little. That, IMO, is asking quite a lot for original coolant, transmission fluid (if the transmission can actually be drained....some can't), and some of the other underhood fluids. A general good rule of thumb is inspection of these fluids at 15K miles, and replacement at maybe 30K. Oil changes, of course, will be determined by the oil-computer.
#67
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
BACK ON TOPIC I don't understand the issue the OP is having. Complaining about $27 in shop fees over 35,000 miles of service, 8 service visits? Even the statement "$27.95 is too much for coffee cookies and pastries" doesn't make sense. If you went out for coffee, cookies and pastries 8 times it would cost you more than $27. I don't get it Every dealership or shop I've ever been to has charged a shop charge/environmental disposal fee.
I don't blame the dealer at all for turning you away.
In Michigan, the dealer is supposed to tell you if the Misc/Shop charge is over $10 - and not “spring” it on you.
My issue is that they didn’t follow the rule - and while they did charge (and I do not challenge) for Oil Disposal, what I do and did balk at is that they charged $28 for shop supplies - when even a non-mechanic knows that the only thing you need to take from the shop during fluid changes is soap/water/towel — and if you’re sloppy, Rags!
Consider it this way - You go to a hotel. It’s $100 plus taxes. Same everywhere. You check out, and they charge you for cleaning supplies. You can afford it, but it simply takes away from the experience.
I can afford $28. If they were smart enough to know that they need to have shop supplies, then they should be smart enough to hide the shop supplies in the price. Not quote me one thing, and then add on some really irritating and insulting charge.
I am not a rookie. I put myself through college as a mechanic, then a technician, then in charge of seravice for the Canadian and Great Lakes U.S. regions, was on the last Board of Governers for the now-defunct SAE Service Technician’s Society, was a guest lecturer at the University of Wisconsin on the topic of “Managing for Customer Satisfaction”, and was the manager of Market Research and Planning for North American operations (5 divisions). And ended my career as the President and Owner of my own consulting company.
So who cares about my pedigree? I agree, I just opened up myself for ridicule from some of the so-inclined members of this board. it means nothing, as I’m now retired and enjoying life - but I can offer that what made the company from which I retired after 30 years enjoy over 75% market penetration in Heavy Truck Transmissions is one thing: We made the customer happy!
A simple way is this: Always come in under the quoted price - and never surprise the customer - especially with questionable charges.
I forgave this dealer for two previous faux pas: they damaged the plastic rocker panel covers last year - and one of them had been recently replaced by the damage caused by another Toyota dealer. It was a minor blemish on a brand-new panel.
The second time I forgave them is two months ago when - despite and after I specifically told them TWICE during the write-up that it was important to me that they lift the car up without damaging the plastic panels - they damaged both of them.
The repair bill for the two panels was $907.66 - parts only - for 1 75850-0E020 MOULDING and 1 75860-0E020 MOULDING.
I figured that, by now, they were the best place in town to lift up my car without damaging it. (As the Svc Mgr told me they had a “teaching Monent” out of the experience), so I made an in-person visit to the shop to ask if they were interested in having me as a return customer.
So, to the fellow above that suggested that I had some pent up animosity - close - call it attentive apprehension - -but I liked the people, location, and look of the dealership - so I gave them another chance.
They blew it with the insulting $28 charge for Cocoa, Cheezy crackers, and Peanut butter cookies (or whatever they want me to believe they needed an additional 28 bucks for).
And to reiterate what you may have glossed-over in my original post is this: they didn’t charge me for shop supplies for the previous gearbox change, nor did they charge me for shop supplies for the previous oil change and tire rotation; however, not only did they now charge me $28 for shop supplies when I merely had both the gearbox oils AND the engine oils changed, when I questioned/challenged the now-additional charge, the writer insulted me by telling me that he’d refund the shop charge but wouldn’t service my car in the future.
(I received a refund check in today’s mail - so I guess they got my message - and I got theirs.)
Last edited by NateJG; 11-18-17 at 04:49 PM.
#68
Lexus Fanatic
BACK ON TOPIC I don't understand the issue the OP is having. Complaining about $27 in shop fees over 35,000 miles of service, 8 service visits? Even the statement "$27.95 is too much for coffee cookies and pastries" doesn't make sense. If you went out for coffee, cookies and pastries 8 times it would cost you more than $27. I don't get it Every dealership or shop I've ever been to has charged a shop charge/environmental disposal fee.
We can, of course, thank the EPA for much of that fee...they are generally the ones that have made it more difficult and expensive for businesses to dispose of the materials used for auto repair. When I used to do my own oil changes, for example, I just took the used oil down to the the local gas station in a leakproof container (most still had actual repair bays in those days), and poured it into the big tank that the station held old oil in. They actually encouraged do-it-yourselfers to do that.....the station often just sold the oil to re-cyclers, and it was used for heating-oil in the wintertime. Now, of course, the process is far more complex and expensive.
I agree, BTW, that $28, at today's prices, is nothing to raise the roof about.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-18-17 at 05:00 PM.
#69
Lexus Fanatic
In Michigan, the dealer is supposed to tell you if the Misc/Shop charge is over $10 - and not “spring” it on you.
My issue is that they didn’t follow the rule - and while they did charge (and I do not challenge) for Oil Disposal, what I do and did balk at is that they charged $28 for shop supplies - when even a non-mechanic knows that the only thing you need to take from the shop during fluid changes is soap/water/towel — and if you’re sloppy, Rags!
Consider it this way - You go to a hotel. It’s $100 plus taxes. Same everywhere. You check out, and they charge you for cleaning supplies. You can afford it, but it simply takes away from the experience.
I can afford $28. If they were smart enough to know that they need to have shop supplies, then they should be smart enough to hide the shop supplies in the price. Not quote me one thing, and then add on some really irritating and insulting charge.
I am not a rookie. I put myself through college as a mechanic, then a technician, then in charge of seravice for the Canadian and Great Lakes U.S. regions, was on the last Board of Governers for the now-defunct SAE Service Technician’s Society, was a guest lecturer at the University of Wisconsin on the topic of “Managing for Customer Satisfaction”, and was the manager of Market Research and Planning for North American operations (5 divisions). And ended my career as the President and Owner of my own consulting company.
So who cares about my pedigree? I agree, I just opened up myself for ridicule from some of the so-inclined members of this board. it means nothing, as I’m now retired and enjoying life - but I can offer that what made the company from which I retired after 30 years enjoy over 75% market penetration in Heavy Truck Transmissions is one thing: We made the customer happy!
A simple way is this: Always come in under the quoted price - and never surprise the customer - especially with questionable charges.
I forgave this dealer for two previous faux pas: they damaged the plastic rocker panel covers last year - and one of them had been recently replaced by the damage caused by another Toyota dealer. It was a minor blemish on a brand-new panel.
The second time I forgave them is two months ago when - despite and after I specifically told them TWICE during the write-up that it was important to me that they lift the car up without damaging the plastic panels - they damaged both of them.
The repair bill for the two panels was $907.66 - parts only - for 1 75850-0E020 MOULDING and 1 75860-0E020 MOULDING.
I figured that, by now, they were the best place in town to lift up my car without damaging it. (As the Svc Mgr told me they had a “teaching Monent” out of the experience), so I made an in-person visit to the shop to ask if they were interested in having me as a return customer.
So, to the fellow above that suggested that I had some pent up animosity - close - call it attentive apprehension - -but I liked the people, location, and look of the dealership - so I gave them another chance.
They blew it with the insulting $28 charge for Cocoa, Cheezy crackers, and Peanut butter cookies (or whatever they want me to believe they needed an additional 28 bucks for).
And to reiterate what you may have glossed-over in my original post is this: they didn’t charge me for shop supplies for the previous gearbox change, nor did they charge me for shop supplies for the previous oil change and tire rotation; however, not only did they now charge me $28 for shop supplies when I merely had both the gearbox oils AND the engine oils changed, when I questioned/challenged the now-additional charge, the writer insulted me by telling me that he’d refund the shop charge but wouldn’t service my car in the future.
(I received a refund check in today’s mail - so I guess they got my message - and I got theirs.)
My issue is that they didn’t follow the rule - and while they did charge (and I do not challenge) for Oil Disposal, what I do and did balk at is that they charged $28 for shop supplies - when even a non-mechanic knows that the only thing you need to take from the shop during fluid changes is soap/water/towel — and if you’re sloppy, Rags!
Consider it this way - You go to a hotel. It’s $100 plus taxes. Same everywhere. You check out, and they charge you for cleaning supplies. You can afford it, but it simply takes away from the experience.
I can afford $28. If they were smart enough to know that they need to have shop supplies, then they should be smart enough to hide the shop supplies in the price. Not quote me one thing, and then add on some really irritating and insulting charge.
I am not a rookie. I put myself through college as a mechanic, then a technician, then in charge of seravice for the Canadian and Great Lakes U.S. regions, was on the last Board of Governers for the now-defunct SAE Service Technician’s Society, was a guest lecturer at the University of Wisconsin on the topic of “Managing for Customer Satisfaction”, and was the manager of Market Research and Planning for North American operations (5 divisions). And ended my career as the President and Owner of my own consulting company.
So who cares about my pedigree? I agree, I just opened up myself for ridicule from some of the so-inclined members of this board. it means nothing, as I’m now retired and enjoying life - but I can offer that what made the company from which I retired after 30 years enjoy over 75% market penetration in Heavy Truck Transmissions is one thing: We made the customer happy!
A simple way is this: Always come in under the quoted price - and never surprise the customer - especially with questionable charges.
I forgave this dealer for two previous faux pas: they damaged the plastic rocker panel covers last year - and one of them had been recently replaced by the damage caused by another Toyota dealer. It was a minor blemish on a brand-new panel.
The second time I forgave them is two months ago when - despite and after I specifically told them TWICE during the write-up that it was important to me that they lift the car up without damaging the plastic panels - they damaged both of them.
The repair bill for the two panels was $907.66 - parts only - for 1 75850-0E020 MOULDING and 1 75860-0E020 MOULDING.
I figured that, by now, they were the best place in town to lift up my car without damaging it. (As the Svc Mgr told me they had a “teaching Monent” out of the experience), so I made an in-person visit to the shop to ask if they were interested in having me as a return customer.
So, to the fellow above that suggested that I had some pent up animosity - close - call it attentive apprehension - -but I liked the people, location, and look of the dealership - so I gave them another chance.
They blew it with the insulting $28 charge for Cocoa, Cheezy crackers, and Peanut butter cookies (or whatever they want me to believe they needed an additional 28 bucks for).
And to reiterate what you may have glossed-over in my original post is this: they didn’t charge me for shop supplies for the previous gearbox change, nor did they charge me for shop supplies for the previous oil change and tire rotation; however, not only did they now charge me $28 for shop supplies when I merely had both the gearbox oils AND the engine oils changed, when I questioned/challenged the now-additional charge, the writer insulted me by telling me that he’d refund the shop charge but wouldn’t service my car in the future.
(I received a refund check in today’s mail - so I guess they got my message - and I got theirs.)
#70
Lexus Fanatic
I am not a rookie. I put myself through college as a mechanic, then a technician, then in charge of seravice for the Canadian and Great Lakes U.S. regions, was on the last Board of Governers for the now-defunct SAE Service Technician’s Society, was a guest lecturer at the University of Wisconsin on the topic of “Managing for Customer Satisfaction”, and was the manager of Market Research and Planning for North American operations (5 divisions). And ended my career as the President and Owner of my own consulting company.
(I received a refund check in today’s mail - so I guess they got my message - and I got theirs.)
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-18-17 at 05:47 PM.
#72
Lexus Fanatic
I would expect your Buick to have about $1200 for the first four years give or take. That is assuming you drive the average miles per year.
Costs for a BMW are likely about $1750 for a small 3 series.
(Brakes and tires excluded) although tires should last the warranty period.
#75
Lexus Fanatic
I would expect your Buick to have about $1200 for the first four years give or take. That is assuming you drive the average miles per year.
(Brakes and tires excluded) although tires should last the warranty period.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-18-17 at 07:48 PM.