bagwell

isn't there still huge federal ($7500) and state tax credits for the Tesla? CO still has a $5000 credit

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

but then offsetting the credits is money to be spent on buying and installing a charger at the house.

jrmckinley

You can't compare someone driving a 11-16 year old LS430 (4th Gen) to a brand new Tesla Model S and try to calculate the savings. But, you could with an LS500.

LS 500 - roughly $75k
Tesla S- roughly $95k

Delta = $20k. At $3/gallon, that's about 6,700 gallons - which is 333 full fill-ups of a 20 gallon tank. Factor in other things like no need for oil changes and more expensive services needed on a gasoline powered car that you'd own for 3-5 years and you'll see the break even is likely around 3-4 years. Another way to look at it is what does that $20k represent in increase in payment? Let's say $350 extra/month. If you fill up an LS500 once/week at $60, that's $240/month. Now the premium of owning a Model S is $110/month or $330/quarter. Every quarter I spend about $80-$100 on routine maintenance on my LS. I wouldn't do that on a Tesla, so now the delta is about $250/quarter or $1,000 per year to buy a Model S over an LS500.

However, this conversation is somewhat similar to another thread where people were debating if a $15k-$25k difference between an LS500 and S Class Mercedes is worth it. If you're prepared to drop almost $80k on a car, another $15k really isn't that big of a difference. Those who want a Tesla or high-end EV will justify it not just with mathematics...

Johnhav430

I think your point is well taken. If someone is spending 80k on a car or potentially more for a higher model Tesla, already, they are spending so much more than basic transportation, that money may not be the driving factor behind the decision (energy cost, carbon footprint, don't seem to pass muster). Look at folks who drive hybrids, I wouldn't necessarily say they have tons of money. Yet they choose to drive a hybrid despite having no break-even. They feel good and appropriate in doing so, and there may even be an advantage using a HOV lane (maybe that was then and this is now).

It's amazing to be that kid in the room full of horse**** doing the backstroke that my dad always told me about when I was small. Look at how much pleasure my cousin has gotten out of his 2008 BMW 535 wagon he got last year for 8 grand. He might have enjoyed his car more than someone else who had a 58k 328i. Actually, I guarantee he did as he is an enthusiast. That bad boy has sport messaging seats, might be broken, but it does have them....here's where the Germans are more reasonable, the sticker showed it was an $850 option. Not like a LS ultra luxury package.....

geko29

I included federal but not state credits in my calculation, since the latter is going to vary. I of course excluded the "fuel savings" that Tesla touts on their site.

Pulled my entire records from Fuelly, and it seems I've spent $7,449.53 on fuel in the 5 years I've had my 335d. My wife doesn't track her RX350 like I do, but it should be right around $16k, based purely on the fact that I get just under double the mpg she does and her fuel costs more. In reality it's probably more like $20k, since her commute was much longer than mine up until 2 years ago. Obviously the cost of electricity is not zero (unless there's a supercharger at your office), but $20k is real money.

Nonsense, see my prior post. $75k is the BASE price of the LS500, with zero options. If you want to play that game, you need to compare it to a 75D with zero options, which costs $73,200. Even then you're comparing RWD vs AWD. Just adding AWD to the LS will bump you up to more like $78k. Option up the LS (based on the current model, since we don't know what options will cost on the new one) and a 100D to relatively equal level, and you wind up with a delta of around $2.5k. And that's assuming we're not talking hybrid LS.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

not quite sure the connection of this analogy to... anything?

jrmckinley

Fair point, however what I was trying to do was show how you could justify a premium of a Tesla and in certain cases show how the premium of a Tesla shrinks more than most think. I intentionally chose the lowest 500 price vs. a mid-tier Model S. I believe a 100D with all options including the fastest 0-60 SW update will run you over $110k. So even a top of the line $85k LS500 would maintain a $25k delta to go to top of the line Tesla Model S.

geko29

That's the P100D, which isn't even in the same class as the LS, because the upgrades beyond the 100D (what my pricing was based on) are purely acceleration. If someone is interested in that, the LS doesn't even come into the picture. You're talking S63/65, Alpina B7, S8 Plus instead at that point. And all of those cost WAY more than $110k. The S8 Plus is the cheapest of the bunch by a WIDE margin, and its base price with no options is $116k. Throw some options at it and it's not difficult to crest $150k. Base price for a B7 is $139k, and the S63 is $148k to start. Looks like the S65 isn't available anymore, but I think its base price was $212k.

Your $25k delta is completely artificial, just like the prior $20k delta, because it's based on configurations that are too dissimilar and unrealistic comparisons.

jrmckinley

Good info, I stand corrected. So it's even easier to justify the price of a Tesla with such a minimal delta.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

My friend has a 2016 70D Model S, its super techie, lots of bells and whistles. Smooth powertrain, easy to use touchscreen. The two biggest gripes were the passenger side window area lets in road noise (which I've heard is a common problem on the Model S), and the lack of a passenger overhead grab handle aka the 'oh, s***' handle does not exist

mjeds

A fully optioned P100D is $147,000 (before tax credits) and $132,700 after the credits.. not $110,000. go configure one on the Tesla Site.

so yeah the LS wouldn't even be a consideration.. completely different class/league of vehicle.