Capless gas tank Discussion
#16
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Foreign object debris (FOD) can prevent the capless fuel filler from closing properly, causing evaporative emissions and triggering the CEL.
I am not saying that the capless fuel filler is bad, just saying that there are problems with it not closing properly that may cause Toyota (known to be a cautious automaker) to be cautious with it.
I am not saying that the capless fuel filler is bad, just saying that there are problems with it not closing properly that may cause Toyota (known to be a cautious automaker) to be cautious with it.
The reason that loose caps trigger the light is that it is an EPA-regulated function. EPA regs state that evaporation of gas fumes into the air from the filler-pipe and canister has to be prevented, and the caps normally do that with a tight seal. As the cap wears, or if it is not screwed on tight enough (usually, clicking sounds indicate a tight fit), small gaps can open up in the seal, allowing fumes to leak out and trigger the light. But........because the light says "Check ENGINE", not the gas-cap, a lot of people, without the proper training, don't know to look there first.
#17
Lexus Fanatic
It's a nice feature. You can forget screwing/unscrewing caps, twist-clicks-to-verify, tethers that wear out or break, caps left on the gas pump or on the ground, other cars running over the cap and crushing it, worn-out caps triggering Check-Engine lights and failing emission tests, and several other problems. And, of course, you can ultimately thank Ford......they were the first to use capless-fueling in the American market, though I'm not sure they actually invented it.
What I do find interesting is that the German brands have not gone to this method of filling the gas tank. So it looks like it is an American and Honda thing for now. But Toyota for sure will offer it at some point.
#18
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
https://www.google.com/patents/US5071018
i think everyone will have it in a couple of years just like stupid keys are going away.
#19
Lexus Fanatic
Agreed. Toyota could very easily put together a capless filler in no time. Its just not essential right now. Eventually it will be. With their Tundra, Toyota added Flex Fuel to select models to try to better compete. With the capless filler now starting to appear on Honda, I wouldn't be surprised if were just a few years away.
#20
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
We see that even on my car, the Lacrosse. One of the things that screwed up my factory-order was that GM decided, at the last minute, to yank out the 3.6L V6 I wanted out of the 2018s and make a four-cylinder hybrid powertrain as standard....lowering the base price some $1500 and making the V6 an option. They obviously made the hybrid standard for gas-mileage reasons, though the V6, 9-speed, and start/stop feature for the engine make for surprisingly good MPG for a car of this size as it is.
Last edited by mmarshall; 09-21-17 at 12:02 PM.
#21
Ah... MMarshall, you're taking me back to the days of my youth. Leaded-to-unleaded gas funnels, arab oil embargos, 55mph speed limits, speedometers limited to 85mph, lets not go to the metric system, disco sucks...memories.
#22
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Yeah....although I am not a speed demon, and generally got used to the 55-MPH limit, in general, those were the Dark Ages of our automotive history. The only good things to come out of that age (1970s), IMO, were standard front-disc brakes, lubed-for-life chassis components, and cleaner-running engines and fuel that no longer needed conventional tune-ups. EFI, clearcoat paint, and overdrive automatics, in general, waited till the next decade....the 1980s.
#25
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Last edited by mmarshall; 09-22-17 at 07:17 AM.
#26
Where I live, they check the seal on the gas cap as part of the emissions testing. If your cap doesn't seal correctly, you fail. I'm sure they test the capless systems as well, if it doesn't seal, you fail.
Now tell me which is cheaper/easier to replace???? $10 for a new gas cap, or having to replace that whole filler neck or assembly that bolts to the fender??? I had a kind of brain dead friend who would always forget to replace the gas cap after he filled up. Well after losing the gas cap, he bought an aftermarket one that allowed you to insert the nozzle right through the middle, you didn't have to take it off. Of course it failed emissions, being a Chinese made POS.
Now tell me which is cheaper/easier to replace???? $10 for a new gas cap, or having to replace that whole filler neck or assembly that bolts to the fender??? I had a kind of brain dead friend who would always forget to replace the gas cap after he filled up. Well after losing the gas cap, he bought an aftermarket one that allowed you to insert the nozzle right through the middle, you didn't have to take it off. Of course it failed emissions, being a Chinese made POS.
#27
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Now tell me which is cheaper/easier to replace???? $10 for a new gas cap, or having to replace that whole filler neck or assembly that bolts to the fender??? I had a kind of brain dead friend who would always forget to replace the gas cap after he filled up. Well after losing the gas cap, he bought an aftermarket one that allowed you to insert the nozzle right through the middle, you didn't have to take it off. Of course it failed emissions, being a Chinese made POS.
Well, that's (probably) on him. Unless it was an old vehicle where parts were no longer available for it, all he probably would have had to do is get a new, factory-spec gas cap from the dealer parts-department. It might (?) have cost a little more than an aftermarket part, but it would have fit, passed inspection (assuming nothing else was damaged), and had a factory warranty on it.
As for the idea of Chinese-made vehicles being POS, I can't speak for all of them, but the Chinese-made Buick Envision is available in the American market. I've looked at several versions of it, and test-drove one for a review. Didn't find any assembly problems at all...it seemed as solidly screwed-together as anything I've seen from Japan or Korea, though every Envision I looked at did, for some reason, have a funny chemical-smell inside that was not your usual pleasant new-car smell. That smell was noted by other reviewers as well.
#28
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (1)
Was doing a little research on this today. The capless designs do have their issues too. Check engine lights caused by a slightly open filler valve as well as a host of other issues. I will say, I don't think most people will have an issue.
What I do find interesting is that the German brands have not gone to this method of filling the gas tank. So it looks like it is an American and Honda thing for now. But Toyota for sure will offer it at some point.
What I do find interesting is that the German brands have not gone to this method of filling the gas tank. So it looks like it is an American and Honda thing for now. But Toyota for sure will offer it at some point.
#29
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Not surprising. Ford invented the system, and it wasn't that long ago that Ford owned Aston Martin. Notice the Aston-style grilles on a number of Ford vehicles.....that's probably where the styling-influence came from. Of course, we're also seeing capless systems from companies that are not owned by Ford (my Buick, for example, has one)....so, perhaps, it's also a case of patent-rights expiring with time.
#30
Well, that's (probably) on him. Unless it was an old vehicle where parts were no longer available for it, all he probably would have had to do is get a new, factory-spec gas cap from the dealer parts-department. It might (?) have cost a little more than an aftermarket part, but it would have fit, passed inspection (assuming nothing else was damaged), and had a factory warranty on it.
As for the idea of Chinese-made vehicles being POS, I can't speak for all of them, but the Chinese-made Buick Envision is available in the American market. I've looked at several versions of it, and test-drove one for a review. Didn't find any assembly problems at all...it seemed as solidly screwed-together as anything I've seen from Japan or Korea, though every Envision I looked at did, for some reason, have a funny chemical-smell inside that was not your usual pleasant new-car smell. That smell was noted by other reviewers as well.
As for the idea of Chinese-made vehicles being POS, I can't speak for all of them, but the Chinese-made Buick Envision is available in the American market. I've looked at several versions of it, and test-drove one for a review. Didn't find any assembly problems at all...it seemed as solidly screwed-together as anything I've seen from Japan or Korea, though every Envision I looked at did, for some reason, have a funny chemical-smell inside that was not your usual pleasant new-car smell. That smell was noted by other reviewers as well.
I know the capless gas cap thing might be nice for keeping your hands clean, I assume that's why manufacturers have gone to it. Of course you could just clean that area when you wash your car, takes like all of 10-15 seconds to wipe it down with the car wash sponge.