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Back in 2012, my 4GS had class leading dynamics too - yet notice how sporty niche 4GS sales plummeted from 33k to just 23k, at a period when sedan E Class & sedan 5 Series sales set an all time record of 69k & 56k units respectively?
Sporty niches are great for the young who tend to purchase at the lower end of the market like Corolla, RAV4, and to a lesser extent Camry & Highlander, however I'm not so sure that sporty niches will attract much volume at the top end of the luxury market.
Lower the ride height & position more of the engine behind the front axle for superb handling/ride compromize, and turn a blind eye to the rear legroom & enjoy...
I can't see how there is evidence that the 4GS sales went down because of a sportier nature. I think the bigger issue with the 4GS was that the 6ES came out at the same time, moving up in size to the Avalon platform. All of a sudden the ES offered similar styling, more room than the GS, and at a lower price. Perhaps stealing some of the GS sales is what allowed the 6ES to debut with strong sales (over 72k for 2013), despite the onslaught of SUV/CUV sales.
It would be like if Lexus also debuted an LS sized car, with less performance but more room, nice and soft, and for $10k less than this new LS. That's the challenge the 4GS has had to face. Luckily Lexus doesn't do this to the LS, so I think the new LS will do fine, but as you say, time will tell.
2GS was able to debut in 1998 with 30k+, followed by another 30k+, followed by 26k+, followed by 24k+.
3GS debut in 2005 with 35k+, followed by 27k+, followed by 23k+.
5ES didn't debut in 2005, but 5ES did debut the following year in 2006 with 75k+, though not on sale for a full year.
In its first full year of 2007, 5ES managed 82k+.
Thus, despite the 5ES debut at 75k in 2006, followed by ES's all time record sales of 82k in 2007, the 3GS was still able to debut with 33k+ in 2005, followed by 27k+ and 23k+.
4GS sales have only ever peaked on debut in 2012 with 22k+, with a peak of 23k+ in 2015, at a time when softly sprung E Class & 5 Series sedan sales rose to a peak all time record of 69k+ & 56k+ respectively.
Forget ES - more importantly, if 2012 & 2013 E Class & 5 Series can rise to a record peak of 69k & 56k respectively, why couldn't 4GS also boom in 2012 and 2013?
In 2013 & 2014, the new more firmly sprung ES could only manage 72k+, to its predecessor's peak of 82k+, at a time when Camry sales booming, while Avalon sales on the nose.
In the past 5-6 years, Toyota Motor Corp have really moved Camry and Corolla.
Old 3 Series peaked in 2007 with 142k+, and current 3 Series matched that 142k+ one model cycle later.
Ditto old C Class 88k+, against current model's 86k+.
Old 2IS was able to debut with 54k+, while current 3IS managed a "decent" 51k+.
Why?
Probably because sporty niches targeting the young favours the smaller IS.
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Last edited by peteharvey; Feb 26, 2018 at 02:03 PM.
2009-16 E Class were able to increase on their 2002-09 predecessor's peak sales, rising from 58k+ to a thumping 69k+.
Meanwhile 2010-17 5 Series was able to maintain its 2003-10 predecessor's healthy peak of 56k+ units.
Current 2012-18 ES fell a little from 82k down to 75k, while current 2012-19 4GS fell a lot compared to their 2005-12 3GS predecessors peak of 33k down to a peak of just 23k - at a period when President Akio wanted a rise in 4GS sales.
If I have time, I'll try to add up all 7 years of sales for each generation, rather than just simply reading off the peak numbers each year.
Even 2010-17 3 Series & 2014-21 C Class were able to maintain sales compared to their predecessors of 2006-13 3 Series & 2007-14 C Classes of 142k to 142k, and 88k to 86k.
Current 2013-20 3IS only fell off slightly compared to 2006-13 2IS of 54k down to 51k.
Bottom line is that Lexus wants sales with 5LS - no excuses!
In years to come, let's see how 5LS sells compared to their sedan competitors like: S Class, 7 Series, Audi A8 and Genesis G90...
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Last edited by peteharvey; Feb 26, 2018 at 04:37 PM.
2009-16 E Class were able to increase on their 2002-09 predecessor's peak sales, rising from 58k+ to a thumping 69k+.
Meanwhile 2010-17 5 Series was able to maintain its 2003-10 predecessor's healthy peak of 56k+ units.
Current 2012-18 ES fell a little from 82k down to 75k, while current 2012-19 4GS fell a lot compared to their 2005-12 3GS predecessors peak of 33k down to a peak of just 23k - at a period when President Akio wanted a rise in 4GS sales.
If I have time, I'll try to add up all 7 years of sales for each generation, rather than just simply reading off the peak numbers each year.
Even 2010-17 3 Series & 2014-21 C Class were able to maintain sales compared to their predecessors of 2006-13 3 Series & 2007-14 C Classes of 142k to 142k, and 88k to 86k.
Current 2013-20 3IS only fell off slightly compared to 2006-13 2IS of 54k down to 51k.
Bottom line is that Lexus wants sales with 5LS - no excuses!
In years to come, let's see how 5LS sells compared to their sedan competitors like: S Class, 7 Series, Audi A8 and Genesis G90...
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they MUST keep it fresh, innovative, and desirable to accomplish that. It is your flagship after all.
Just thought I would send an shout or an PSA in case anyone is looking for a Lexus LS500 in the Canadian market, more specifically in the Toronto area. They are now at $25,000 discount from the dealer. This is an excellent deal and savings for those looking for a car like this.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; Feb 14, 2019 at 03:31 PM.
Just thought I would send an shout or an PSA in case anyone is looking for a Lexus LS500 in the Canadian market, more specifically in the Toronto area. They are now at $25,000 discount from the dealer. This is an excellent deal and savings for those looking for a car like this.
Just thought I would send an shout or an PSA in case anyone is looking for a Lexus LS500 in the Canadian market, more specifically in the Toronto area. They are now at $25,000 discount from the dealer. This is an excellent deal and savings for those looking for a car like this.
Finally, some rims on that car that look decent. These discounts may be why but the LS is actually selling well, I believe it's #2 behind the stalwart S-Class.
Do you know any dealer giving this kind of money off a GX or LX? I don't mind 2018 models or even dealer demos.
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
Just thought I would send an shout or an PSA in case anyone is looking for a Lexus LS500 in the Canadian market, more specifically in the Toronto area. They are now at $25,000 discount from the dealer. This is an excellent deal and savings for those looking for a car like this.
When I was at my dealer the other day picking up my GS they had an LS500 in the showroom that was marked down similarly. The sticker was $110k and they had it marked down to $90k. My salesman said they've been selling really well and right now their remaining 2018s are marked way down, but the 2019s are still pretty much at list price.
No chance. The LX and GX do really well in Canada. Finance rates are like 4.9%. Never seen a rebate on an LX. Ever.
I don't think I've noticed it, but now that you mention it, I don't recall seeing any rebates on the LX either. Right now my dealer is advertising $1000 Lexus cash and 2.4% on 60 months on the GX, though.
