When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
i really don't see the point in comparing LS and S class sales as the S class average selling price is probably $15-25K higher than the LS.
i'm sure the new LS will do fine.
That's why I compensate for both age & price differences by expecting the LS to sell in much larger volumes - something that they have been successful at in the past.
I'm a BMW owner, and liked their cars since I was about 8 y.o. Too bad I never saved all the brochures I amassed over the years. But I do have a 1978 320i brouchure (as well as a 1969 Buick full line catalog), 1990 Lexus LS and ES brochure, 1998 Lexus full line, etc. blah blah blah. And they have definitely fallen, look at these products like the X1, FWD? But their demise applies to most cos. imho BMW is like Apple, all they have to do is apply the logo to a product and it already wins.
First of all, I almost did not compute when you started mentioning years before 1990's..silly millennial problem on my part oops.
And yes I agree - these automakers are completely consumer-driven nowadays. FWD, crossover, compacts, etc, are all the result of consumers demanding products that fit their lifestyles better. I am not advocating that makers start producing risky products, but they need to push back a bit and NOT apply that design mentality on every one of their current lineups.
One best current example would be the G class in MBZ. It's chunky, square, and frankly a giant musical box car. However, it's fast, mean, and packs crap ton of luxuries that even a HSE Sport Range Rover will quiver when it sees one coming. That is a bold statement from MBZ in saying that we will design some mainstream stuff, but we will continue to hammer out classic pieces to those who appreciate a specific niche.
No it doesn't compete against the S class, it's newer and it costs less than the S class. $75K vs $100K... why would you even bring up the S class? Isn't that like talking about your new girlfriend in front of your hot ex?
It's got a cool turbo V6 so it doesn't need a V8. Who needs a V8 these days? Did I say that it's cheaper... uh more inexpensive. Because you know buyers in this category of car are quite price sensitive. They worry about money a lot.
It's supposed to be a barge and isolated because that's what the original was, and if C&D doesn't like it then well whatever. Too much noise, not enough noise, get the sound meter out.
We're not competing against the S because we are in a distinct category of consumers who only see a narrow group of choices in the luxury flagship sedan segment, it's all about segments and demographics.
i really don't see the point in comparing LS and S class sales as the S class average selling price is probably $15-25K higher than the LS.
i'm sure the new LS will do fine.
They are the same buyers, $15k is not a deterrent to the flagship sedan buyer.
People seem to forget how these buyers got in their rarified position in the first place. Besides inheritance, most of these businesspeople were careful with their money and always are on the lookout for a bargain.
So absolutely a buyer in the position for an S class will consider an LS and the 15,000 price delta will play a big role.
most of these businesspeople were careful with their money and always are on the lookout for a bargain.
completely disagree for s class as most are leased for one thing, and i know people with s class who clearly have it just to look good in it and can barely make the payments lol
but i think you're right for the ls - a more value oriented consumer.
People seem to forget how these buyers got in their rarified position in the first place. Besides inheritance, most of these businesspeople were careful with their money and always are on the lookout for a bargain.
So absolutely a buyer in the position for an S class will consider an LS and the 15,000 price delta will play a big role.
Agree. And sometimes they make strategic choices. During a previous economic downturn, I saw corporate bosses 'downgrade' from the S class to an LS as their companies laid off staff, messaging that the top brass had to make sacrifices too....
2018 Lexus LS: The Luxury Sedan Benchmark Pivots In A Sporty New Direction
The feedback, confidence and overall driver engagement I experienced at the wheel of the new 2018 Lexus LS 500 really shouldn't have surprised me. Lexus has made one thing quite clear in recent years: the brand's longstanding reputation for high-quality-but-boring vehicles will no longer be tolerated. This desire to alter Lexus' image has already manifested in some interesting new models, including the sporty RC and gorgeous LC. But those are both two-door coupes with clear intensions around performance and fun. I didn't expect this same focus on driver engagement to manifest in the all-new 2018 Lexus LS sedan.
I was wrong.
Between the upgraded interior and reworked exterior the LS certainly looks the part of a flagship luxury sedan, but it was the driving aspects that surprised me. It started with my first seat time at the wheel of the hybrid-powered LS 500h, (arguably the least sporty version of the new sedan). I was immediately aware of how responsive the car was to driver input.
It wasn't just the hybrid's straight-line acceleration that impressed me. The LS 500's new chassis architecture isn't just the stiffest in Lexus' history but also among the first to feature new suspension technology in the form of double ball joints on the upper and lower control arms. This design maximizes suspension geometry while improving steering precision, manifesting in the LS 500h's confident, even nimble driving dynamics on the twisty roads snaking through Marin Country. It left me wondering, "If the hybrid feel this good what does the LS 500 with the F Sport package feel like?"
I answered my own question a few minutes later in a 2018 Lexus LS 500 F Sport wearing Infrared paint. Unlike the hybrid the F Sport sticks with the LS 500's standard drivetrain, a twin-turbocharged 3.5-liter V6 making 415 horsepower and 442 pound-feet of torque. Power is delivered to either the rear wheels or all four through a 10-speed automatic transmission, and fuel efficiency is rated at 19/29/23 for rear-wheel drive models and 18/27/21 mpg on all-whee-drive models. My test car, an LS 500 F Sport with rear-wheel-drive and the F Sport Performance Package, featured variable steering, active rear steering, an active stabilizer bar and a sport-tuned air suspension.
Riding on 20-inch wheels with summer tires, sized 245/45 front and 275/40 rear, the Infrared F Sport streaked between and around corners feeling like a much smaller and lighter car than it is. Better still, it encouraged this type of driving through its steering wheel feedback, confident brakes (these are upgraded on F Sport models) and effortless directional changes. Put simply, the F Sport was undeniably fun and engaging to drive -- a statement I never expected to use when describing a Lexus LS sedan.
..........the 2018 Lexus LS 500 starts at a wallet-friendly $75,000. Exact pricing for each trim level and option package hasn't been released yet, but expect $80,000 to $90,000 to buy you a technologically advanced and highly engaging luxury sedan, which is less than the starting price of the LS' primary competitors. The value argument used to be the primary reason to go with the LS instead of its European competition. Now you can add "fun to drive" to the that argument.
Reading between the lines of all the reviews of the new LS, it seems like the LS is the most driver oriented car in this class of cars, aside from the Porsche Panamera.
Can't wait for the new GS. If even the large and lengthy LS handles this well, the smaller. nimbler, more agile GS must be a wonder to drive.
Are you serious? 25k is alot of money, even today and even for a vehicle in the 75k range, thats about 30% more expensive.
I agree with you, to say 25k is not a lot, imho is puffing. I spend time with colleagues that are uber wealthy, and what I've come to find is they accept some costs, like a slip charge, or an apt. in Manhattan being this much, or one in WPB, the jet costing this much per hour to operate, etc., or the cost to belong at Pine Valley or Augusta being that. These are things that are somewhat beyond their control. But what car they buy and at what price, is totally within their control, and they don't arbitrarily throw 25k away. I have one colleague who said it's killing him that he moved to the city, has 3 cars and 3 garage spaces, when he doesn't drive the cars. He has the entire 17th floor of a building, so by the above logic,why would he care about 3 parking spaces and cars not being driven? My hunch is his values have to do with being self made. my .02 We joked we'll take your Porsche (it appears to be his least favorite car), but he's not giving anything away. He didn't even smile or laugh when my coworker said that.
People seem to forget how these buyers got in their rarified position in the first place. Besides inheritance, most of these businesspeople were careful with their money and always are on the lookout for a bargain.
So absolutely a buyer in the position for an S class will consider an LS and the 15,000 price delta will play a big role.
You're totally correct, most people were insulted by an iPad costing $1,200, the only people who weren't, are likely kids. I know someone who said that's too much can we return it (iPad Pro 4G blah blah blah), and he has a co. that has a Lear 75. It's rather naive to assume people who have wealth don't care about money, they do. They care about it much more than those who have nothing.
Reading between the lines of all the reviews of the new LS, it seems like the LS is the most driver oriented car in this class of cars, aside from the Porsche Panamera.
Can't wait for the new GS. If even the large and lengthy LS handles this well, the smaller. nimbler, more agile GS must be a wonder to drive.
Well, that is if it’s competitive in performance as well as being 'driver oriented'. I don’t see any signs of it.
I would like to see Lexus develop some high performance smaller capacity motors, to redress the 200t. Not everyone wants a 3.5 Litre motor. If they can have a V6 3.5 that performs almost like a V8, then they should have a 2.0 that performs like a good 3.5 V6, granted that has so far been been elusive to them over the years.
And if the new hybrid system is exclusive only to the 3.5 V6tt.......
As a buyer in this class I also completely disagree that $15,000 doesn’t matter. If it didn’t, I’d have an S Class right now.
If it truly doesn’t matter why do these carmakers have value entrants? Why is there a cheaper V6 S Class? Why would Genesis or Lexus even bother?
I will agree with the idea that that 15K matters to this class of vehicle buyer. The size of the overall car market is shrinking and the flagship segment is definitely not growing like it did in years past. I actually honestly thought this new LS was going be closer to $85K starting point.
On the other hand, I don't really believe that these flagship buyers go dealer to dealer looking for the best price. I think that the decision to buy a certain brand's flagship is made well ahead of time. The price does factor in, just not like the sub $50K segment which is very price sensitive.
09-28-17, 02:35 PM
