mmarshall

I drive in a very dense-traffic area, where one often has no choice....and a full-stop definitely beats a ticket. But, yes, my experience has shown that there are indeed ways to get around the system. The lack of a defeat button, though, is definitely slowing the sales of the Lacrosse. Perhaps GM will consider adding a button before actually dropping the car...but don't bet on it. The corporation has a long history of making bone-headed marketing decisions.




The older 6-speed GM transmissions don't allow coasting/freewheeling to a stop in the higher gears for better fuel economy. Even lifting your foot off the gas and attempting to coast in gear, the transmission downshifts, right around the 25-30 MPH range, with a slight bump, increase in engine RPM, and noticeably increased drag on the engine, slowing you down. The engineers do that, as you note, to save wear on the brakes. The new 9-speed 9T65 automatic in the Lacrosse (which is actually in the same transmission-casing as the old 6-speed, just more efficiently-packaged inside with two-way clutches), is somewhat more refined in its operation.....it also doesn't allow coasting/freewheeling in the higher gears, but its downshifts aren't as pronounced, and are more seamless.

LexBob2

These are both good options to have. On both of our cars the auto start/stop can be turned of.. I ilke it that way since I prefer not to use it.

mmarshall

GM's reasoning (though I don't totally agree with that reasoning) is that their system is seamless enough that most drivers won't care about it. They have a point about it being relatively seamless. I myself can hear and feel it, but just barely, and I am notoriously sensitive in being able to feel minor tactile sensations in a car's operating systems...always have been. That's why like smooth-driving cars.

Toys4RJill

Makes sense to be able to shut it off. It's not defeatable on the Buick because GM gains extra credits for CAFE then Mercedes or Toyota get for systems that can be turned off.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

In the european mondeo i just rented recently, the auto start/stop would only occur if the stick shift was in neutral with the clutch released, and when i depressed the clutch the engine would restart instantly. And this was a diesel too, and it was pretty seamless, although this like most diesels had a bit rougher idle than a gas engine.

a friend with an mb e class loathed the start stop and turned it off and instinctively when starting the car since it always defaulted to on. that was on his last gen e, i don't know about his new one,

mmarshall

That's not the way that the EPA tests work, though. The tests are obviously run with the system working. If the drivers shut it off and lower the actual mileage on the road, that's something that is beyond either the manufacturer or the EPA. And, practically-speaking, what's the difference between actually shutting the system off (on vehicles that allow it), and finagling the accelerator/brake to fool or get around the system? ...I fail to see any.

Toys4RJill

Like I have said. You get extra credits for things like grille shutters and start stop systems. You get more if it can't be turned off.

mmarshall

Didn't know they had that system with traditional 3-pedal manuals...that must be a European thing. Many people, though, with manuals, don't shift into neutral and release the clutch when they are waiting at a stoplight...they just leave the clutch-pedal depressed with their left foot, their right foot on the brake, and the transmission in first. That way, when the light changes, all they have to do is give the engine a few revs, slowly release the clutch, and go....no actual shifting. Doing that, though, of course, increases wear on both one's left knee and the clutch's throwout-bearing.

SW17LS

One of my best buddies has an Accord, he's had a bunch of Accords as has his wife. Almost all of them have had transmission failures before 100k miles, which was quite surprising to me. I knew Hondas did have some transmission issues but to have multiple of them fail like that for the same buyers?

Anyways, he admires how smooth and quiet my car is, but he's not a car guy and he doesn't really see the value in paying as much money as I do for a car. He's wondered what LS460s are worth used, but I don't think its worth it for him to pay for the upkeep on one. He's replacing his Accord this year, and I'm going to suggest he go drive one of these. I think a Lacrosse equipped just like yours would be perfect for him.

mmarshall

One does not necessarily have to be a "car guy" to admire the refinement in an LS. It is a car that has long spoken for itself.

SW17LS

Well sure, my point is he doesn't appreciate it enough to part with $80,000 lol. ~ $30-35,000 is where he's at, and a Lacrosse equipped like yours would be doable at that price. He wants leather (he won't care about leatherette, he only wants leather because he drives his dogs around), and he wants a blue car LOL. I think once he drives that he will love how it drives more like my car than his Accord.

That Accord really is terrible BTW, it rides like crap, loud. Ugh. Its a 2010.

Sulu

The idle-stop system was easier to implement on 3-pedal manual transmission cars, as described, because it is easier to determine when the engine is not needed: Engaging neutral and releasing the clutch signals that engine power is not needed (it does not matter if the car is coasting along with the clutch released) so the engine is switched off, and subsequently engaging the clutch to put the car in gear signals that engine power is required so the system restarts the engine. Stopping and releasing the clutch -- taking pressure off the clutch plates -- is the way you are supposed to drive a 3-pedal manual transmission, rather than riding the clutch, which keeps some pressure (and wear) on the clutch.

The idle-stop system is more difficult to implement on automatic transmissions and the first systems were jerky because of it. The first systems shut off the engine while the car was coasting (foot off the accelerator) and restarted the engine as soon as it sensed pressure on the accelerator; this made for jerky stop-and-go driving, especially during parking maneuvers. The latest idle-stop systems wait until the car has actually stopped for a short period of time before shutting off the engine.

mmarshall

Yeah, I agree.....even though I could afford it if I really wanted to, I'd think twice before plunking down 80K or more on a car.


Although one has to respect Honda's always-good assembly quality and solid hardware (even if the newer transmissions don't last as long as they used to), for the money, IMO, the Lacrosse is a lot more car.

That counts out a new 2018 Lacrosse. They dropped four colors this year, adding four new ones....and last year's blue was one of those dropped. He'd have to do what you suggested in the first place.......picking up a 2017 sitting on the lot. And last year's blue was so dark (a true Midnight-Blue shade) that IMO it was difficult to tell from the black...especially in the shade.


Hmmm.....I'm not sure I follow that one? He carries dogs and he WANTS leather? That's usually not a very good combination LOL.

Yeah....if one is used to an LS (or even a Lacrosse) an Accord is just not going to have the same comfort or refinement. And, at that age (almost 8 years now) the original shocks and suspension on his 2010 may be getting a little weak, further degrading the ride. But, in general, the Accord's ride is not bad by mid-size family-sedan standards, though it is not as cushy as that of the average Camry. And both cars obviously satisfy a lot of buyers.

SW17LS

He would have no problem with a leftover 2017.

Because of hair, hair sticks to cloth seats and wipes off of leather seats.

I helped him buy it in 2010, its always been that way. Its just not a very nice riding car, every other family sedan I've driven rides better and is quieter. I haven't driven a newer Accord to see if they are better;

mmarshall

Cloth seats are not offered in the Lacrosse. It's either leather or leatherette, and, in most vehicles today, the leatherettes are so good that, except for the smell, it's hard to tell the difference. If I were carrying pets, no matter what kind of seats I had, I'd drape a big sheet or blanket over the seat. Many dogs love to stick their heads out the open window of a moving car (weather allowing), and probably won't walk around as much when the car is in motion.



I did a mini-review (including a test-drive) on a new accord just a year or two ago. I was impressed with just about everything but the road noise...which was also apparently one of your complaints.