Lexus Loses Its Luster in J.D. Power Quality Study
#46
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by Freds430
For me initial quality is just not that important. It looks at issues for the first 90 days when the vehicle is under warranty. I put much more weight on the J D Power dependability study which looks at a vehicle at the three year period. here Lexus has been #1 for six years in a row. Consumer Reports also has Lexus #1 in dependability. next in importance is cost of maintenance. Here Lexus is the third least expensive to maintain behind its cousins Toyota and Scion. I am dumbfounded when someone buys a luxury car and than has to continue to pay more money to keep it running. In addition when you pay more money for a car, I guess the manufacturer assumes you will pay more for maintenance.
http://twocents.lifehacker.com/the-c...ver-1781639773
http://twocents.lifehacker.com/the-c...ver-1781639773
In any event, just the fact that they've slipped so dramatically will hurt perception of the brand as their competitors (almost all of which are above "below average" Lexus now after years of watching Lexus at the top use that against them.
You can bet Genesis will tout this in EVERY ad.
#47
Advanced
Well I think that it might be expected when the whole line of cars have new designs. In a few years they will refine the model over the years.
For the electronic side, I can say that I have at least two: Received Texts on my phone are most of the time not forwarded to my infonment system. Second, my reverse camera guiding lines do not work in cold weather. They did not manage to fix that last winter, Lexus engineers will look it up at fall when cold weather gets back... I think those a real problems and not just being unsatisfied by the interface like many auto critic journalists report.
But it is a good question as what is really counted as being a problem? We may never know.
For the electronic side, I can say that I have at least two: Received Texts on my phone are most of the time not forwarded to my infonment system. Second, my reverse camera guiding lines do not work in cold weather. They did not manage to fix that last winter, Lexus engineers will look it up at fall when cold weather gets back... I think those a real problems and not just being unsatisfied by the interface like many auto critic journalists report.
But it is a good question as what is really counted as being a problem? We may never know.
#48
Lexus Fanatic
Lexus has had whole turnovers of their model lineup many times before and this has never happened. They've never been below average ever in their history, and we're commonly #1 up until a few years ago.
#49
Reliability is the biggest factor for me...not initial quality. I don't think I have owned very many cars that have been perfect from the day I drove it off the lot. That includes various Lexus vehicles. Once any little gremlins have been addressed, I have never had any issues with a Lexus before trading it in.
The overall score is not a very good judge of any vehicle. If Lexus is dragged down by it's voice recognition and other nav issues, sound systems, etc. I could care less. Is there work to be done at Lexus, I believe there is, but it won't stop me from buying another.
The overall score is not a very good judge of any vehicle. If Lexus is dragged down by it's voice recognition and other nav issues, sound systems, etc. I could care less. Is there work to be done at Lexus, I believe there is, but it won't stop me from buying another.
#50
Lexus Fanatic
It's not infotainment. Infotainment was the same in 2016, 2015, 2014 & 2013...why wasn't IQS trounced in those years?
#51
Lexus Fanatic
What did this chart look like in 2006? Are we to accept that having 72 problems per 100 vehicles, is stellar? Also, jmo, since Porsche is king on this historically, ask that guy Nick on YouTube how things went on his new 911 Carrera S a couple years ago (buyback). hashtag unscientific lol
(then again man has always searched for a single number with which to judge goodness)
(then again man has always searched for a single number with which to judge goodness)
#52
Lexus Fanatic
What did this chart look like in 2006? Are we to accept that having 72 problems per 100 vehicles, is stellar? Also, jmo, since Porsche is king on this historically, ask that guy Nick on YouTube how things went on his new 911 Carrera S a couple years ago (buyback). hashtag unscientific lol
(then again man has always searched for a single number with which to judge goodness)
(then again man has always searched for a single number with which to judge goodness)
And that quality today is well-appreciated. I'm old enough to clearly remember the defect-ridden junk and poor excuses for automobiles that we got from GM and Chrysler (and, to a lesser extent, Ford) in the late 70s and 80s.....while their CEOs (people like Lee Iacocca and Henry Ford II) were talking about quality being paramount. I got stuck with several of those cars myself before I finally gave up and switched to Mazdas.....which were clearly better, but still not problem-free.
Last edited by mmarshall; 06-22-17 at 06:49 AM.
#53
Pole Position
It's not a replacement for durability, but it's a measure of how satisfied customers are with their new cars, bottom line is according to this Lexus customers are far less satisfied than they used to be. That's something that's an issue, also.
In any event, just the fact that they've slipped so dramatically will hurt perception of the brand as their competitors (almost all of which are above "below average" Lexus now after years of watching Lexus at the top use that against them.
You can bet Genesis will tout this in EVERY ad.
In any event, just the fact that they've slipped so dramatically will hurt perception of the brand as their competitors (almost all of which are above "below average" Lexus now after years of watching Lexus at the top use that against them.
You can bet Genesis will tout this in EVERY ad.
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#54
Lexus Fanatic
"Problems" are areas of dissatisfaction. As in "I don't like the seat" or "I don't like the cup holders" Like I've said repeatedly, it's a number that shows how satisfied buyers are with their new cars, it's not a reliability measurement.
In 2006 the winner had like 96/100. So it's actually improved.
Have you filled out the survey? It's a measure of satisfaction...you're asked areas of concern and about what issues the dealer has addressed. Those areas of concern may or may not be defects that can be corrected.
As for rattles being a nuisance but not impacting your overall impression of the car, I totally disagree. Rattles are a sign of a poor quality product, they destroy my ability to enjoy my vehicle. Part of what I want when I purchase a luxury vehicle is a solid, well crafted machine that feels expensive in everything it does, rattles destroy that.
Reliability is important but it's not everything. If it were all that mattered to us we'd be driving Corollas. I've gotten to the point where I would rather drive a car that impressed me every time I drive it yet needs a repair now and then to a car that frustrates me every time I drive it but never needs a repair. Perceived poor quality in a car really bothers me, especially at this price point and rattles are a huge part of that.
In 2006 the winner had like 96/100. So it's actually improved.
Originally Posted by Freds430
The quality survey has nothing to do with how satisfied a customer is with their purchase. That is a whole other survey. I could love my new purchase but the rattle annoys me so I have to take it in to get fixed. This is a nuisance but should have nothing to do with my satisfaction of the overall product. What they base the survey on is within the first 90 days the study captures problems experienced by owners in defects and malfunctions. Again these are annoyances but give me #1 in dependability based on a three year old vehicle for six straight years anytime.
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As for rattles being a nuisance but not impacting your overall impression of the car, I totally disagree. Rattles are a sign of a poor quality product, they destroy my ability to enjoy my vehicle. Part of what I want when I purchase a luxury vehicle is a solid, well crafted machine that feels expensive in everything it does, rattles destroy that.
Reliability is important but it's not everything. If it were all that mattered to us we'd be driving Corollas. I've gotten to the point where I would rather drive a car that impressed me every time I drive it yet needs a repair now and then to a car that frustrates me every time I drive it but never needs a repair. Perceived poor quality in a car really bothers me, especially at this price point and rattles are a huge part of that.
Last edited by SW17LS; 06-22-17 at 06:59 AM.
#55
Advanced
My first three months went without a glitch! Even went on a long road trip of 1000 miles (500 going and back) for summer vacation.
My rattles started after 9 months and got worst 18 months later.
BUT I love to drive my RX 350! Very comfortable for long rides, love the radio sound, climate control, seat comfort. Makes also many heads turn.
Yes there are anoyances, but many can be fixed. Like my sun roof vibration in the room that will be fixed very soon. Hope to keep this one for a very long time!
My rattles started after 9 months and got worst 18 months later.
BUT I love to drive my RX 350! Very comfortable for long rides, love the radio sound, climate control, seat comfort. Makes also many heads turn.
Yes there are anoyances, but many can be fixed. Like my sun roof vibration in the room that will be fixed very soon. Hope to keep this one for a very long time!
#56
Lexus Fanatic
For instance, I don't particularly like the hard "feel" of the seat cushions in many of the smaller and/or entry-level Kia products, but those cushions are well-made, with some excellent materials. One can be reasonably confident that, given all but the most extreme abuse, holes and rips won't be worn in the upholstery after a couple of years, or that electric adjustment-motors/switches won't need to be replaced.
#57
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by mmarshall
All else equal, though, it's going to be rather obvious that, even if a customer doesn't particularly like the look or feel of something inside the car, he or she is going to be more satisfied, on the average, if it doesn't break.
For instance, I don't particularly like the hard "feel" of the seat cushions in many of the smaller and/or entry-level Kia products, but those cushions are well-made, with some excellent materials. One can be reasonably confident that, given all but the most extreme abuse, holes and rips won't be worn in the upholstery after a couple of years, or electric adjustment-motors/switches won't need to be replaced.
For instance, I don't particularly like the hard "feel" of the seat cushions in many of the smaller and/or entry-level Kia products, but those cushions are well-made, with some excellent materials. One can be reasonably confident that, given all but the most extreme abuse, holes and rips won't be worn in the upholstery after a couple of years, or electric adjustment-motors/switches won't need to be replaced.
#58
Pole Position
Lets put it this way, I've owned 6 Lexus vehicles over the past 19 years, all owned in the same climate, driven on the same roads. The old ones had no creaks or rattles of any kind, even after 100k+ miles, in fact my 03 ES300 still has no creaks or rattles and it has 190,000 miles on it. The modern Lexus vehicles I've owned all had at least one or two rattles that had to be addressed prior to 30,000 miles. Thats a significant change. The fact that a 14 year old ES300 has fewer rattles than a 2 year old LS460, a car that despite being twice as expensive is 12 years younger isn't right.
A modern luxury car should be creak and rattle free regardless of the outside temperature, and my LS400, LS430, and ES300 were. My ES350, GS350 and LS460 were/are not.
A modern luxury car should be creak and rattle free regardless of the outside temperature, and my LS400, LS430, and ES300 were. My ES350, GS350 and LS460 were/are not.
#59
Lexus Fanatic
Given how complex most of today's vehicles are (especially luxury/premium vehicles), to average less than one problem per vehicle, even when brand-new, is a pretty good accomplishment IMO, any way you look at it.
And that quality today is well-appreciated. I'm old enough to clearly remember the defect-ridden junk and poor excuses for automobiles that we got from GM and Chrysler (and, to a lesser extent, Ford) in the late 70s and 80s.....while their CEOs (people like Lee Iacocca and Henry Ford II) were talking about quality being paramount. I got stuck with several of those cars myself before I finally gave up and switched to Mazdas.....which were clearly better, but still not problem-free.
And that quality today is well-appreciated. I'm old enough to clearly remember the defect-ridden junk and poor excuses for automobiles that we got from GM and Chrysler (and, to a lesser extent, Ford) in the late 70s and 80s.....while their CEOs (people like Lee Iacocca and Henry Ford II) were talking about quality being paramount. I got stuck with several of those cars myself before I finally gave up and switched to Mazdas.....which were clearly better, but still not problem-free.
Again, I'm just using a general sense....if Porsche dominates this survey for multiple years, yet you talk to Porsche owners and many of the brand new cars go back for repairs that are often unsolvable, what's it measuring? Unless this is a very important marketing tool, at Lexus, I wouldn't sweat it. I just literally took a call asking about something that happened on my business trip--I could say it was awful, terrible, didn't like it. Now my data has to go into the survey, and although unscientific, it would adversely affect this co. in Atlanta, who probably wants high numbers to advertise when there is competition (this is business internet).....
another example, the world's largest eTailer whose founder is soon to be the richest man on the planet--his product is poor quality (unless you pay $99/yr), but extremely reliable, meaning, whatever you want/ask of them, it will be done exactly the same way, every time, and everything has been thought out and mapped....who knows what the survey says about them...I say take them with a grain of salt, Lexus hasn't gone down the drain, nor is it really below average...(chart says so)
#60
Pole Position
I wonder if this new result is justification for their decline in sales. Well more than MB and BMW. Word of mouth advertising is very powerful so if current owners are being annoyed by their car or dislikes driving it, it is very unlikely they will recommend it to their friends or relatives. I would feel bad if I recommend something to friends and relatives and they end up hating that thing. Lexus and Akio is simply too focused on driving involvement and forgot about driving enjoyment. They need to understand that most people are sitting in traffic or on local streets also stuck in traffic or with stop signs and traffic lights (in the U.S. at least). I dont care how fast it can barrel around a turn when I'm stuck in traffic. I want to be able to use my entertainment system easily and quickly without taking my eyes off the road or not have options grayed out cuz I'm moving at 5 mph.