Genesis after the first year.
06-16-17, 06:59 AM
#46
06-16-17, 08:31 AM
#47
Lexus Champion
The CT6 sells considerably cheaper than the G90, and it sells at a wider variety of dealerships. 400 units a month out of the extremely limited dealership network that sells the G90 is actually quite good. Remember the G90 is only sold out of two dealers here in DC, both of which are in VA. There are 6 Lexus dealers. 5 Cadillac dealers.
Lexus sales are all about value price, you mentioned the CT6 as a success while the G90 is a failure because it's value priced when the CT6 starts at a much lower price than the G90.
You truly only think 1-2% of Genesis buyers are conquest buyers? That's not realistic lol. What is your source for that statement? If anything I would bet you most sales are conquest since first time luxury buyers are more badge oriented.
Lexus better look out, for instance this is one 20 year customer who is almost definitely leaving the brand in 2 years, and very possibly going to Genesis. I'm not alone.
Lexus sales are all about value price, you mentioned the CT6 as a success while the G90 is a failure because it's value priced when the CT6 starts at a much lower price than the G90.
You truly only think 1-2% of Genesis buyers are conquest buyers? That's not realistic lol. What is your source for that statement? If anything I would bet you most sales are conquest since first time luxury buyers are more badge oriented.
Lexus better look out, for instance this is one 20 year customer who is almost definitely leaving the brand in 2 years, and very possibly going to Genesis. I'm not alone.
The base CT6 has a 4 cylinder engine.
Here is the source:
"For one, selling premium vehicles through a mainstream showroom has helped Hyundai both retain existing customers and attract new ones to the brand. About 45 percent of Hyundai's Genesis sales, for example, are to current Hyundai owners who were looking to graduate to a more upscale vehicle, Zuchowski says.
Meanwhile, about 55 percent are conquest sales. Nearly three quarters of that comes from buyers moving into the luxury segment for the first time from another mainstream brand that Hyundai was able to intercept with the Genesis. The rest are conquests from bona fide luxury brands such as Lexus or Mercedes-Benz, he said."
http://www.autonews.com/article/2014...s-with-low-end
55% are conquest sales, but only 1/4 of that 55% is from luxury brands. That means Genesis has 13% luxury conquest rate, of which 30% is from Lexus (3.9% of total sales), 15% from BMW (1.9% of total sales) and 11% from MB (1.43% of total sales). The remaining 5.7% of conquest sales comes from other luxury brands not defined.
No one has taken notice.
You will be disappointed by Genesis compared to Lexus. It offers nothing compelling over Lexus, MB, or BMW. At least 25 years ago MB buyers switching to Lexus got higher quality and better service to go with the lower price. Genesis just gives you the lower price, and that will be offset by the higher depreciation at the other end.
Your bias is showing heavily through here. Your post is verbatim what was said in MB and Mercedes forums 25 years ago about Lexus. Verbatim.
Tesla is this generation's Lexus. Ask MB and BMW who they fear more. The Model 3 is threatening 3er sales and the Model S has already stifled S-class and other large luxury sedan sales. The G90 is not even in the picture to these guys. A year from now when it's selling 200 units a mo no one will even remember what a G90 is.
Last edited by Mr. Burns; 06-16-17 at 08:43 AM.
06-16-17, 08:49 AM
#48
I have yet to drive/ride in the current Genesis, but my best friend purchased a 2013 Genesis R-Spec sedan new and was impressed with the car. Infotainment was a little quirky but that was the only major complaint. It was a great attempt but not nearly as polished as Lexus but that was to be expected.
The latest offerings look great IMO.
The latest offerings look great IMO.
06-16-17, 09:07 AM
#49
Lexus Fanatic
The G80 is considerably cheaper than its competition but people lose their minds when you point this out as a reason for sales. But with the CT6 it's valid?
The base CT6 has a 4 cylinder engine.
Here is the source:
"For one, selling premium vehicles through a mainstream showroom has helped Hyundai both retain existing customers and attract new ones to the brand. About 45 percent of Hyundai's Genesis sales, for example, are to current Hyundai owners who were looking to graduate to a more upscale vehicle, Zuchowski says.
Meanwhile, about 55 percent are conquest sales. Nearly three quarters of that comes from buyers moving into the luxury segment for the first time from another mainstream brand that Hyundai was able to intercept with the Genesis. The rest are conquests from bona fide luxury brands such as Lexus or Mercedes-Benz, he said."
http://www.autonews.com/article/2014...s-with-low-end
55% are conquest sales, but only 1/4 of that 55% is from luxury brands. That means Genesis has 13% luxury conquest rate, of which 30% is from Lexus (3.9% of total sales), 15% from BMW (1.9% of total sales) and 11% from MB (1.43% of total sales). The remaining 5.7% of conquest sales comes from other luxury brands not defined.
The base CT6 has a 4 cylinder engine.
Here is the source:
"For one, selling premium vehicles through a mainstream showroom has helped Hyundai both retain existing customers and attract new ones to the brand. About 45 percent of Hyundai's Genesis sales, for example, are to current Hyundai owners who were looking to graduate to a more upscale vehicle, Zuchowski says.
Meanwhile, about 55 percent are conquest sales. Nearly three quarters of that comes from buyers moving into the luxury segment for the first time from another mainstream brand that Hyundai was able to intercept with the Genesis. The rest are conquests from bona fide luxury brands such as Lexus or Mercedes-Benz, he said."
http://www.autonews.com/article/2014...s-with-low-end
55% are conquest sales, but only 1/4 of that 55% is from luxury brands. That means Genesis has 13% luxury conquest rate, of which 30% is from Lexus (3.9% of total sales), 15% from BMW (1.9% of total sales) and 11% from MB (1.43% of total sales). The remaining 5.7% of conquest sales comes from other luxury brands not defined.
No one has taken notice.
You will be disappointed by Genesis compared to Lexus. It offers nothing compelling over Lexus, MB, or BMW. At least 25 years ago MB buyers switching to Lexus got higher quality and better service to go with the lower price. Genesis just gives you the lower price, and that will be offset by the higher depreciation at the other end.
No this is false. You assume Genesis is the equivalent of Lexus 25 years ago, it isn't. Lexus brought a lot of new things to the table and changed the luxury landscape almost immediately. Hyundai has been trying since 2009 with the first Genesis and 2011 with the Equus. They have nothing new or compelling. No impact whatsoever.
One doesn't have to be the sales king to have an impact. If they can sell a few hundred G90s, 2,000 G80s, and 3,000 of some SUV model, that has an impact I promise you.
Tesla is this generation's Lexus. Ask MB and BMW who they fear more. The Model 3 is threatening 3er sales and the Model S has already stifled S-class and other large luxury sedan sales. The G90 is not even in the picture to these guys. A year from now when it's selling 200 units a mo no one will even remember what a G90 is.
Selling 200 units? You mean like the LS? A8? XJ? GS? Do people not remember what they are?
06-16-17, 10:05 AM
#50
Lexus Fanatic
The G80 is considerably cheaper than its competition but people lose their minds when you point this out as a reason for sales. But with the CT6 it's valid?
The base CT6 has a 4 cylinder engine.
Here is the source:
"For one, selling premium vehicles through a mainstream showroom has helped Hyundai both retain existing customers and attract new ones to the brand. About 45 percent of Hyundai's Genesis sales, for example, are to current Hyundai owners who were looking to graduate to a more upscale vehicle, Zuchowski says.
Meanwhile, about 55 percent are conquest sales. Nearly three quarters of that comes from buyers moving into the luxury segment for the first time from another mainstream brand that Hyundai was able to intercept with the Genesis. The rest are conquests from bona fide luxury brands such as Lexus or Mercedes-Benz, he said."
http://www.autonews.com/article/2014...s-with-low-end
55% are conquest sales, but only 1/4 of that 55% is from luxury brands. That means Genesis has 13% luxury conquest rate, of which 30% is from Lexus (3.9% of total sales), 15% from BMW (1.9% of total sales) and 11% from MB (1.43% of total sales). The remaining 5.7% of conquest sales comes from other luxury brands not defined.
No one has taken notice.
You will be disappointed by Genesis compared to Lexus. It offers nothing compelling over Lexus, MB, or BMW. At least 25 years ago MB buyers switching to Lexus got higher quality and better service to go with the lower price. Genesis just gives you the lower price, and that will be offset by the higher depreciation at the other end.
No this is false. You assume Genesis is the equivalent of Lexus 25 years ago, it isn't. Lexus brought a lot of new things to the table and changed the luxury landscape almost immediately. Hyundai has been trying since 2009 with the first Genesis and 2011 with the Equus. They have nothing new or compelling. No impact whatsoever.
Tesla is this generation's Lexus. Ask MB and BMW who they fear more. The Model 3 is threatening 3er sales and the Model S has already stifled S-class and other large luxury sedan sales. The G90 is not even in the picture to these guys. A year from now when it's selling 200 units a mo no one will even remember what a G90 is.
The base CT6 has a 4 cylinder engine.
Here is the source:
"For one, selling premium vehicles through a mainstream showroom has helped Hyundai both retain existing customers and attract new ones to the brand. About 45 percent of Hyundai's Genesis sales, for example, are to current Hyundai owners who were looking to graduate to a more upscale vehicle, Zuchowski says.
Meanwhile, about 55 percent are conquest sales. Nearly three quarters of that comes from buyers moving into the luxury segment for the first time from another mainstream brand that Hyundai was able to intercept with the Genesis. The rest are conquests from bona fide luxury brands such as Lexus or Mercedes-Benz, he said."
http://www.autonews.com/article/2014...s-with-low-end
55% are conquest sales, but only 1/4 of that 55% is from luxury brands. That means Genesis has 13% luxury conquest rate, of which 30% is from Lexus (3.9% of total sales), 15% from BMW (1.9% of total sales) and 11% from MB (1.43% of total sales). The remaining 5.7% of conquest sales comes from other luxury brands not defined.
No one has taken notice.
You will be disappointed by Genesis compared to Lexus. It offers nothing compelling over Lexus, MB, or BMW. At least 25 years ago MB buyers switching to Lexus got higher quality and better service to go with the lower price. Genesis just gives you the lower price, and that will be offset by the higher depreciation at the other end.
No this is false. You assume Genesis is the equivalent of Lexus 25 years ago, it isn't. Lexus brought a lot of new things to the table and changed the luxury landscape almost immediately. Hyundai has been trying since 2009 with the first Genesis and 2011 with the Equus. They have nothing new or compelling. No impact whatsoever.
Tesla is this generation's Lexus. Ask MB and BMW who they fear more. The Model 3 is threatening 3er sales and the Model S has already stifled S-class and other large luxury sedan sales. The G90 is not even in the picture to these guys. A year from now when it's selling 200 units a mo no one will even remember what a G90 is.
I would be interesting to know how many Genesis models they have sold though the years. I did a quick look and it looks like they peaked at about 30k units between the 2 door and 4 door model. Now they are at 20k for 2016. Compared to Lexus as an entire brand, I wonder what there total sales were when the first gen Genesis was launched and what it was now.
As for Tesla. You are 100% by far the biggest threat to Lexus and all the other established players.
06-16-17, 10:09 AM
#51
06-16-17, 10:15 AM
#52
Lexus Fanatic
Up here on the GTA Telsa is pretty big. They want $158K for a Telsa Model S while a Lexus 460 is about $105K. Tesla just opened their first stand alone dealer and they have a few in malls here and there. Haven't seen much Tesla in upper New York or Rochester.
06-16-17, 10:28 AM
#53
Lexus Champion
Hey, very well said. Not sure why you are wasting your time arguing. I stopped a long while ago and no longer view certain posts because they are just not worth it. But you have made some very compelling arguments.
I would be interesting to know how many Genesis models they have sold though the years. I did a quick look and it looks like they peaked at about 30k units between the 2 door and 4 door model. Now they are at 20k for 2016. Compared to Lexus as an entire brand, I wonder what there total sales were when the first gen Genesis was launched and what it was now.
As for Tesla. You are 100% by far the biggest threat to Lexus and all the other established players.
I would be interesting to know how many Genesis models they have sold though the years. I did a quick look and it looks like they peaked at about 30k units between the 2 door and 4 door model. Now they are at 20k for 2016. Compared to Lexus as an entire brand, I wonder what there total sales were when the first gen Genesis was launched and what it was now.
As for Tesla. You are 100% by far the biggest threat to Lexus and all the other established players.
I agree with you both to some extent on Tesla in the South and West Coast but differs slightly in the Northeast Ive owned 2 Genesis and still own a Genesis V8 sedan. Started with the Genesis coupe Rspec and Sonata for the wife. Owned a number of Lexus's and 3 BMW's. I chose the Genesis sedan over a newer Lexus GS based on value. I still prefer interior styling of Lexus and will say Lexus build quality is better. Genesis sedans or G80's are not far behind.
NOW...after driving the G90 I would differ in quality opinions as it is much more on par with Lexus LS and just behind S- Class/BMW 7 series.
In my humble opinion based on ownership of both brands and individuals I know who have shopped both in the Northeast, Genesis competes more closely with Lexus.
We tend to view Tesla as a competitor against MB, BMW and Audi.
06-16-17, 10:29 AM
#54
Their is dealership literally across from Love Field, my co-worker recently picked up a P90D. He is rather fond of it to say the least.
Last edited by Restomod; 06-16-17 at 04:00 PM.
06-16-17, 11:15 AM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
You will be disappointed by Genesis compared to Lexus. It offers nothing compelling over Lexus, MB, or BMW. At least 25 years ago MB buyers switching to Lexus got higher quality and better service to go with the lower price. Genesis just gives you the lower price, and that will be offset by the higher depreciation at the other end.
06-16-17, 11:23 AM
#56
Lexus Fanatic
Shut the doors on a Genesis product (and listen to the solid thud). Then sit inside, and compare the Genesis hardware, trim, and build-solidness to a number of today's Lexus products (which, as Steve has correctly pointed out, are not as well-built as they used to be), and I think you will find that Genesis products deserve more credit than you are giving them.
When you drive them its clear Lexus is who they are after, you could close your eyes and you would swear you were riding in a Lexus LS. Lexus should not ignore them, they're clearly aiming to pick up the traditional buyers than Lexus is leaving behind with their shift towards sport.
As for my LS460, don't get me wrong I love it, but I have some little rattles and pops and such inside that I'm working through that I never had to deal with before in the LS400 or LS430. Shouldn't have to deal with that in a car of this caliber.
06-16-17, 11:25 AM
#57
Lexus Champion
Got one!
Bought this last Sunday https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used...ting=174690441
Bought this last Sunday https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used...ting=174690441
06-16-17, 11:26 AM
#58
Lexus Fanatic
Yeah I'm excited to see what you think of it
06-16-17, 03:19 PM
#59
Lexus Fanatic
I agree with you both to some extent on Tesla in the South and West Coast but differs slightly in the Northeast Ive owned 2 Genesis and still own a Genesis V8 sedan. Started with the Genesis coupe Rspec and Sonata for the wife. Owned a number of Lexus's and 3 BMW's. I chose the Genesis sedan over a newer Lexus GS based on value. I still prefer interior styling of Lexus and will say Lexus build quality is better. Genesis sedans or G80's are not far behind.
NOW...after driving the G90 I would differ in quality opinions as it is much more on par with Lexus LS and just behind S- Class/BMW 7 series.
In my humble opinion based on ownership of both brands and individuals I know who have shopped both in the Northeast, Genesis competes more closely with Lexus.
We tend to view Tesla as a competitor against MB, BMW and Audi.
NOW...after driving the G90 I would differ in quality opinions as it is much more on par with Lexus LS and just behind S- Class/BMW 7 series.
In my humble opinion based on ownership of both brands and individuals I know who have shopped both in the Northeast, Genesis competes more closely with Lexus.
We tend to view Tesla as a competitor against MB, BMW and Audi.
So far in 2016 Genesis sold 20K units. Funny how all the number talkers on hear are all quiet after they hear that the Genesis cars sold more units years ago than they did last year.
The only way Genesis is going succeed is if they make cars or SUVs that are superior to their immediate competition.
I have no interest to ever test drive a Genesis. I have sat in them and played with the interiors. Yes, they are excellent. I believe my past posts will say that I also take everyone's word on here and reviews that they are very, very good. Or almoat as close as a LS or 7 series like you just said.
Now if you told me that the current Genesis cars are superior to a comparable Lexus or BMW and the mainstream press were all saying the same, I would be interested in test driving one.
06-16-17, 05:41 PM
#60
Lexus Fanatic
Would I spend Lexus money on a Genesis? No. Would I spend BMW or Mercedes money on a Lexus? No.
Give them time.
Give them time.