Toys4RJill

My older parents are away in the United States visiting my brother and sister. Currently my Corolla is getting a warranty fix and it will take 7 days just to get the part. That leaves me with my fathers Lexus ES350 2015 with 10k Miles as a loaner . Let me get out of that way that there is a suspicion among us much older children that my parents, hate, hate, and just hate their car. I think I can confirm some of the things.

First the pros:
Nice fresh design
Nice leather
Decent materials for the most part
Not bad wood trim
Smooth engine
Great place to be stuck in traffic
Lots of room from an otherwise mid size car
Nice Michelin Primacy MXM4 tires
The parking camera line up grid works

Now the cons:
OMG the NAV screen, radio, remote touch interface is HORRIBLE. This is the worst thing Lexus has ever done. (I have a touch screen and my mother's 4Runner has a touchscreen and the touch is far superior) (I also had the remote on a CT and it was just as bad)
Why on Earth is there no hard button to turn off the Air Conditioning? Seriously, why does it have to be like this?
The need for pre-set hard buttons ala BMW would be nice.
The ergonomics are bad. The two front cup holders are either too far from the drivers hands, or too close to the driver. They also have those plastic grip things that are stupid. Grabbing the cup seem like a two step process.
Same thing with the radio ****, way to far.

Overall, I find it bewildering that this car sells so well for Lexus. The ride is neither great nor bad, it feels just a tad to firm and just not soft enough, I assume younger folks are what the ride is appealing too. . The ES350 screams for the need of an Adaptive Variable Suspension. The 3.5 is adequate,in other words perhaps more power is needed as this cars engine dates back to 2007. The good is that this car is getting 26 MPG US combined. The smoothness and operation of everything is outstanding. The 3.5 is silent and almost all outside noise is muted for the most part.

Now these two design gremlins just kill me.

1. The window wipers must be the worst design ever in the history of automobiles. The actual rear hood lip prevents one from pivoting the wipers up more than 1 or 2 inches,if you are not careful you will damage the paint. So you have a very difficult time cleaning the window at the fuel station. Perhaps I am missing something?

2. From the drivers seat (and assuming the passenger seat looking opposite) you see a gap between the hood and the right passenger fender. Never seen such a design error. It is like this little detail over sight Lexus forgot about it or missed.

Quality concerns:

1. The truck does not release up when you hit the fob. It just stays in the down position unlocked. The truck on the my Corolla pops open about half way.

That's it for quality issues.


Overall, a decent car that is a luxury car for the most part. It made my weekly weekend trip to Rochester NY effortlessly. However, I think Lexus needs to soften the ride a little or add Adaptive Variable Suspension. If Lexus really believes in the "Passionate Pursuit of Perfection" then they need to really reconsider some of the things of remote touch. Either make it touch and remote like BMW does on some their cars or just all touch. No hard button for the AC is ridiculous. i have heard some rumblings that the car may be traded in at the 4 year of age mark, that leaves another one and half years.

PS. Now driving a 2015 Limited 4Runner....will give some thoughts later in the week.

JDR76

For the wipers, I assume they're like the ones on my GS. You must first give them a tug up and they'll slide up a few inches to be able to pull them away from the window.

mmarshall

Your description of the ES350's ride and suspension is exactly what I have been saying for several years......how the ride was made noticeably firmer from the 4th to the 6th generation models, and the quality of the interior trim and hardware inside cheapened. However, that doesn't mean it is a bad car by any means, and fit/finish is still first-rate. I still thought enough of the 2017 model to rank it as a finalist when I decided on a Lacrosse. And, though the 2015 model has a spindle-outline on the grille, it was not as pronounced as the 2017, due to a large center-bar.

Hard to believe there is no separate A/C button for the compressor. I could (?) be wrong, but it's probably there if you look for it. A friend of mine has a leased 2015 ES350, with the same dash. I'll probably see him tomorrow morning at the local rec-center for swimming....I'll check it out myself.

I disagree that this car needs the sophisticated Adaptive Suspension. The way most ES350s are driven (i.e., conservative, unaggressive, often aged drivers), it doesn't need the firmed-up damping in the corners that the Adaptive Suspension would bring. All it needs, for most of its clientele, is slightly softer springs/shock damping and maybe a swap of the 55-series tires for 60s or 65s. If it plows a little on hard cornering, with slow response....who cares? This is not a sport sedan, and is almost never driven like one.

JDR76

My GS doesn't have a dedicated AC button and neither did my RX. My IS did, though. Never used it, however. I just set it to AUTO and don't mess with it.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

I have to disagree, 2013-2015 are all the same. 2016 is the refreshed front grill, headlights, and interior refinements, including more soft touch surfaces, less hard rough plastic, and a revised remote touch make a massive difference.

You don't need to use the Nav screen for much. Radio and Media have physical buttons on the console. Climate, everything save for AC is on the dash, Nav can be input by voice. If you're having problems with the Remote Touch, go to Menu - Setup - General - *scroll down to Feedback Force*, and set FF all the way to the right. This will give it a bit more haptic feedback so it doesn't jump around as much.

To add to your cons, no 60/40 split fold rear seat is a serious omission in my book. Also the lack of a sunglasses holder. Agree on the lack of an AC button, but its easy to bypass it simply by pressing 'Auto' then manually knock down the fan, still keeps the AC on. But when you want it off, yes you do have to go to the climate menu.

AVS would be very welcome. The ES could benefit from the 2GR-FKS with D4-S, like the RX uses. A Comfort mode on driver mode select would be nice as well.

You should be able to physically grab the wipers and pull up to set them into 'ice mode', this will help them not touch the paint.

Hope the tips help your time in the car.

Sulu

Exactly. I have to admit that it requires quite a push to get them up. Come the first snow, I push them up and leave them up for the winter so that I can quickly pull them off the windshield when needed; and come spring, I push them back down. When fully retracted down, they are down far enough that I have not had to pull them off the windshield to clean it.

Sulu

I find the hybrid drivetrain in my ES 300h to be more refined than the ES 350 drivetrain! A larger trunk and fold-down rear seat back would be nice; that is what I am looking forward to in the next ESh model.

I am also looking forward to space for my sunglasses (actually, my glasses case, since I wear glasses so have to switch from one pair to the other). I am also looking forward to a holder / slot for my smartphone, especially when it is charging, so that I do not have to use one of the cup holders. Small item storage in this car is terrible! An A/C button would be nice also, instead of having to pull up the climate control screen and play with the menus.

The Remote Touch is an acquired taste; once you have used it a bit, you become used to it. It is not like you have to use it constantly, meaning that you do not have to fiddle with it all the time. Set it and forget it! Unfortunately, the nav display defaults to the map display upon start up so I have to manually poke the home button to bring up my home screen (I do not like the constantly moving map display in my peripheral vision) every time I start the car.

Wandl

Jill, when you trading in your Corolla for the ES?

The 2016's + newer ES models (as well as the Avalon, the architecture the ES is based on) has been softened; although to what degree I don't personally know. So the firm ride has been addressed some, though not to pre-2013-cushy-levels but Toyota was trying to avoid the old-man/woman-stigma with the Avalon which made its way to the ES.

SW17LS

Huge improvement with the 2016 refresh. I really strongly disliked the 13-15 ES, thats why I upgraded to the GS in 2012. Had the 16 ES been what was out in 2012, I likely would have stayed with the ES.

However, I am absolutely certain that I have read multiple posts where Jill has praised the ES effusively and even gone on to say it was the best Lexus made.

mmarshall

A soft, comfortable ride is not necessarily an old-person stigma....that is an old automotive stereotype that is basically nonsense. Unfortunately, many auto-marketers today actually believe it. Having said that, though, it is true that the majority of ES buyers are older and drive more conservatively than average...but that doesn't mean that young people can't drive cars like that. I myself have liked soft-riding cars since my teen years.

FYI, I test-drove a new Avalon last year (when I did a full-review), and found the ride slightly softer than the too-firm 2014 version...not as soft as I would like, but a definite improvement. In this class, the Buick Lacrosse (with 18" tires) and Lincoln MKZ (with base-level tires) are probably the two most comfortable-riding.....with the Chevy Impala very close.

mmarshall

So did I. By Lexus standards, it was clearly designed by bean-counters. But a lot of people still liked it...see the rest of my reply below.



In this particular thread, though, I think she is more or less asking us for our views, rather than her own. She merely pointed out the things she doesn't like about the 2015 ES. And I concur.....there is no such thing as a perfect automobile....even from Buick LOL.

The ES sales numbers, though, speak for themselves. Even with sedan sales down this year, it has consistently out-sold all other American-spec Lexus sedans.

dseag2

True that. How times change!

Toys4RJill

haha, no new trades coming anytime soon, my Corolla will be with me for at least 7 more years, maybe even 12 more based on the miles we do. Our Matrix has least 7 more years to go (knock on wood). We don't have the funds for luxury cars, at this point, our funds are allocated to different and more important things. And I could retire any day, but I think I am going to work for a least 10 more years out of enjoyment for work. Our two SUVS are in it for the real long haul. I drive my 4Runner approx 2K miles per year and the LX450 (which I don't drive) goes even less although it is extremely expensive to maintain and repair, I think the average city MPG is like 8-9 real world.

Never heard that the ES for 2016 was revised for its ride. I was under the impression that there are now two different rides for the Avalon, Touring and Limited are different or something alone those lines. But the original ride is now in the touring spec.

Why do we have to disturb the peace? I have a few people blocked, no need to have any arguments.

I have read that the ES300h might be more refined. At least Car & Driver sort of elude to that. And yes front storage is horrible.

mmarshall

I didn't sample the latest Touring-Spec, but from what I understand, you are correct. Unlike the other versions of the 2016+ Avalon which were slightly softened, they left the previous Bounce-O-Matic suspension on the Touring model for those with strong backs.

peteharvey

I didn't think the original 2013-15 ES350 looked as good esp on the exterior, and I don't know if they updated the ES350's suspension in 2016.
I think the mid-life refreshed 2016-18 ES350 is good alround car.

I agree with you about the cupholders, and the sat nav joystick.

However, just one note about Lexus adaptive suspension, ie electronic automatic variable shock absorber valving.
I have owned four cars with electronic variable shock absorber valving over the past 35 years.

What I find is that non-electronic damper valving with well chosen damping rates eg on a Mercedes C or E Class - beats electronic variable damper valving with poorly chosen damping rates every time.
My 3GS and 4GS both have electronic variable damper valving, and I'm presently investigating the feasibility of replacing my 4GS front coils and electronic front dampers with a softer set of front coils and floatier front non-electronic shock absorbers from a GS300h in Europe.

The best thing I find about electronic variable damper valving is that they firm up with speed or g-force to increase damping at higher speeds, or hi g-forces to reduce floatiness.
However, in the models that I have owned, I have not noticed any benefit in the actual ride comfort at legal speeds up to 60 mph over the non-adjustable damper model, probably because the electronic variable dampers didn't have well chosen damping rates in the first place.
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