Why can't Lexus make a cheap LFA?
#31
Lexus Test Driver
They tried with the original LFA, but failed. When it was first announced, it was said to be priced in the low $100's. As each quarter slipped by, the price rose another $25-50k, and so on. By the time it was released, all hell had broken loose. Then, they only produce a tiny tiny amount and close the doors. Double kick in the butt. At least the similar Audi R8 story landed closer to original promises.
I always look back at the LFA story as a brilliant machine that boosted a brand, but shafted the public. Stuff like that chaps my hide, but whatever.
I always look back at the LFA story as a brilliant machine that boosted a brand, but shafted the public. Stuff like that chaps my hide, but whatever.
The reality is that Toyota decided to scrap the original aluminum LFA design, completely re-engineer it in CF, bring it to fruition, and sell it to customers (which, you know, is the public) despite the fact that Toyota knew they could not possibly turn a profit on the vehicle. That's "shafting the public"? In this day and age where everyone seems to be railing on big companies for "corporate greed", Toyota made a product the best way they knew how and lost money selling it to customers, and that's "shafting the public"? I've really heard it all now. How can any corporation possibly win with this type of vitriol and demonization?
I've been very critical of TMC in the past couple years, but how they've really "shafted the public" is by not continuing on with development of driver-focused, enthusiast-oriented vehicles. TMC teased us with the FT-86 but then absolutely nothing (especially with recent rumors that the FT-1/Z5 may not come out until 2019 if it does at all). If you want to get on Toyota about "shafting the public", that's what you should be focusing your ire on. But certainly not for making a well-engineered product and selling it to customers at a loss.
Toyota really didn't have any idea on how to make an exotic, carbon fiber super car, they had never done it before. They had the raw engineering talent and corporate will to give us something awesome, the LFA, but once again it was beset by a bunch of delays and cost over-runs. Toyota really had no idea on how to make the LFA cost effective to where they could ramp up production and make money on it. I doubt Toyota is willing to go down the exotic car rabbit-hole again, considering how much $$$ they lost on the LFA.
#32
The funny thing is, all the people who complain about about stuff like "it weights 4000lbs blah blah blah" are the same people that probably never have stepped foot on the track with their M3 or whatever "race" car they think they own.
I know a few guys with the new M3 and M4 and they all sht about how heavy and sloppy those cars are on the track as well. Let's just say those cars are long gone and traded for either a Z06 or GT4.
Do you take your M3 family sedan to the track? Why not buy something lighter, half the size, with 3 pedals and actually enjoy the experience? How about a track built S2000 or a Miata? That's a hell lot more fun and cheaper to use on the track and will run circles around all these stock "super sedans". I don't consider this class of cars true track cars because they are not and the second you get on the track you will realize that when a Miata with half the power blows past you.
I know a few guys with the new M3 and M4 and they all sht about how heavy and sloppy those cars are on the track as well. Let's just say those cars are long gone and traded for either a Z06 or GT4.
Do you take your M3 family sedan to the track? Why not buy something lighter, half the size, with 3 pedals and actually enjoy the experience? How about a track built S2000 or a Miata? That's a hell lot more fun and cheaper to use on the track and will run circles around all these stock "super sedans". I don't consider this class of cars true track cars because they are not and the second you get on the track you will realize that when a Miata with half the power blows past you.
Having said all that, and knowing that it isn't the fastest on the track, that doesn't mean you can't have fun on the track with it. No, I don't plan on outrunning Corvettes and out handling Miatas, but that's not the objective. The objective is to have fun and still have a nice daily driver. Lets not forget about the fact that it is, in fact, a "class" of car on the track. Just like there are different classes in professional motorsports, be it F1, kart, FE, Indy, nascar, Rally, GT1, GT2, GT3, Trucks, Motorcycles etc etc, lots of different types of vehicles for different types of races. You can race a shopping car against a shopping cart and it's still a race. In this class, I find the RC-F to be an underperformer compared to it's competitors.
#33
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by ragingf80
Yes, I plan on tracking and I've already registered for the 2 day M School. If I wanted to dominate on the track, however, you are right, the Z06 and GT4 would be much better, but that's not why I bought it. I preferred a 4 door sedan that I could also have fun in, but a nice coupe wasn't out of the question. I also wanted something stylish, but not boy-racer. The Z06 despite it's numbers, don't do anything for me, and the GT4 was practically impossible to by at the time, you couldn't find any! I also considered the RC-F, Audi S4, Cadillac CTS-V, and a Mercedes C63 AMG. The RC-F, like I said, wasn't worth the 2 door trade-off being so heavy and underperforming. The C63 styling wasn't to my liking, and the Audi S4 was too slow. The Cadillac CTS-V didn't connect with me emotionally. I just couldn't see myself driving one. The M3 seemed to check most of the boxes and I was in love with the aesthetics and power.
Having said all that, and knowing that it isn't the fastest on the track, that doesn't mean you can't have fun on the track with it. No, I don't plan on outrunning Corvettes and out handling Miatas, but that's not the objective. The objective is to have fun and still have a nice daily driver. Lets not forget about the fact that it is, in fact, a "class" of car on the track. Just like there are different classes in professional motorsports, be it F1, kart, FE, Indy, nascar, Rally, GT1, GT2, GT3, Trucks, Motorcycles etc etc, lots of different types of vehicles for different types of races. You can race a shopping car against a shopping cart and it's still a race. In this class, I find the RC-F to be an underperformer compared to it's competitors.
Having said all that, and knowing that it isn't the fastest on the track, that doesn't mean you can't have fun on the track with it. No, I don't plan on outrunning Corvettes and out handling Miatas, but that's not the objective. The objective is to have fun and still have a nice daily driver. Lets not forget about the fact that it is, in fact, a "class" of car on the track. Just like there are different classes in professional motorsports, be it F1, kart, FE, Indy, nascar, Rally, GT1, GT2, GT3, Trucks, Motorcycles etc etc, lots of different types of vehicles for different types of races. You can race a shopping car against a shopping cart and it's still a race. In this class, I find the RC-F to be an underperformer compared to it's competitors.
I would buy one in the $60k range but not the $80k range.
#34
Lexus Test Driver
Crazy to think I got my 2008 IS-F for $60k OTD.
I consider luxury performance cars like the M3 and IS-F to be compromise cars - I don't think anyone really thinks they are track beasts. But I also don't think it's unreasonable for buyers to want as little compromise as possible even when they know they are buying a compromise car.
Last edited by gengar; 05-13-17 at 02:17 PM.
#35
I was about to ask if you were talking about the RC-F or the GS-F, then checked the Lexus website and realized a fully-packaged (not even fully-loaded) RC-F is $77.5k. All this time I just assumed the RC-F was discount-priced to the M4... it's not.
Crazy to think I got my 2008 IS-F for $60k OTD.
Crazy to think I got my 2008 IS-F for $60k OTD.
#36
I consider luxury performance cars like the M3 and IS-F to be compromise cars - I don't think anyone really thinks they are track beasts. But I also don't think it's unreasonable for buyers to want as little compromise as possible even when they know they are buying a compromise car.
#37
Originally Posted by gengar
Just to be clear - by "it was said to be priced", what you mean is 'the media speculated the price to be'. Go read the 2007-ish news reports on the LFA (or shall we say, "LF-A") when the early concept rumors came out - Toyota didn't promise us anything. It was all just a lot of speculation. At the time, media estimated the base price at around $150,000, probably because at the time the LFA was supposed to use an aluminum chassis. Media also speculated it would be a V8, since media assumed Lexus would use something based on the new (at the time) RVX06/07 V8 engine Toyota was using in F1, which probably also lowered the price estimates. Sure, maybe TMC would have produced a spectacular V8 that also would have won EVO's Engine of the Year award, but even leaving the V10 vs V8 out of consideration, it doesn't make much sense to compare the estimated price of an aluminum chassis car to that of a CF car.
I've been very critical of TMC in the past couple years, but how they've really "shafted the public" is by not continuing on with development of driver-focused, enthusiast-oriented vehicles. TMC teased us with the FT-86 but then absolutely nothing (especially with recent rumors that the FT-1/Z5 may not come out until 2019 if it does at all). If you want to get on Toyota about "shafting the public", that's what you should be focusing your ire on. But certainly not for making a well-engineered product and selling it to customers at a loss.As I mention above, Toyota had no intention of making the LFA "cost effective" - they knew they were going to lose money bringing the car to market. If they wanted to make it "cost effective" they would never have gone CF. It was Akio Toyoda's pet project, intended as a demonstration of TMC's capabilities, and only possible in a megacorp with lots of cash flow.
I've been very critical of TMC in the past couple years, but how they've really "shafted the public" is by not continuing on with development of driver-focused, enthusiast-oriented vehicles. TMC teased us with the FT-86 but then absolutely nothing (especially with recent rumors that the FT-1/Z5 may not come out until 2019 if it does at all). If you want to get on Toyota about "shafting the public", that's what you should be focusing your ire on. But certainly not for making a well-engineered product and selling it to customers at a loss.As I mention above, Toyota had no intention of making the LFA "cost effective" - they knew they were going to lose money bringing the car to market. If they wanted to make it "cost effective" they would never have gone CF. It was Akio Toyoda's pet project, intended as a demonstration of TMC's capabilities, and only possible in a megacorp with lots of cash flow.
#38
Yes, Yamaha built the LFA V10 for Lexus.
I believe the motor alone costs more than a complete RC-F.
This thread is a mess.
You can't expect Lexus to build a cheapo toned down LFA for RC-F money.
I believe the motor alone costs more than a complete RC-F.
This thread is a mess.
You can't expect Lexus to build a cheapo toned down LFA for RC-F money.
#40
Originally Posted by rominl
that's why i said in my first reply that this thread simply doesn't make any sense. might as well look for a kit car
#41
Yes, I plan on tracking and I've already registered for the 2 day M School. If I wanted to dominate on the track, however, you are right, the Z06 and GT4 would be much better, but that's not why I bought it. I preferred a 4 door sedan that I could also have fun in, but a nice coupe wasn't out of the question. I also wanted something stylish, but not boy-racer. The Z06 despite it's numbers, don't do anything for me, and the GT4 was practically impossible to by at the time, you couldn't find any! I also considered the RC-F, Audi S4, Cadillac CTS-V, and a Mercedes C63 AMG. The RC-F, like I said, wasn't worth the 2 door trade-off being so heavy and underperforming. The C63 styling wasn't to my liking, and the Audi S4 was too slow. The Cadillac CTS-V didn't connect with me emotionally. I just couldn't see myself driving one. The M3 seemed to check most of the boxes and I was in love with the aesthetics and power.
Having said all that, and knowing that it isn't the fastest on the track, that doesn't mean you can't have fun on the track with it. No, I don't plan on outrunning Corvettes and out handling Miatas, but that's not the objective. The objective is to have fun and still have a nice daily driver. Lets not forget about the fact that it is, in fact, a "class" of car on the track. Just like there are different classes in professional motorsports, be it F1, kart, FE, Indy, nascar, Rally, GT1, GT2, GT3, Trucks, Motorcycles etc etc, lots of different types of vehicles for different types of races. You can race a shopping car against a shopping cart and it's still a race. In this class, I find the RC-F to be an underperformer compared to it's competitors.
Having said all that, and knowing that it isn't the fastest on the track, that doesn't mean you can't have fun on the track with it. No, I don't plan on outrunning Corvettes and out handling Miatas, but that's not the objective. The objective is to have fun and still have a nice daily driver. Lets not forget about the fact that it is, in fact, a "class" of car on the track. Just like there are different classes in professional motorsports, be it F1, kart, FE, Indy, nascar, Rally, GT1, GT2, GT3, Trucks, Motorcycles etc etc, lots of different types of vehicles for different types of races. You can race a shopping car against a shopping cart and it's still a race. In this class, I find the RC-F to be an underperformer compared to it's competitors.
Always irks me when people say "oh my god my gutted Civic type R can beat Ferrari 360 on track" K.
#43
The LCF will have LFA performance, if not better, even though it'll for sure weigh more. Mark my words and come back and visit this thread in 2020☺️. And it'll cost less than the LFA ($150k range) and be easier to get your hands on... everything the OP wanted correct?!? So OP, make sure you put your order in for what since it'll be pretty much what!
V.
V.
#44
Lexus Test Driver
The LCF will have LFA performance, if not better, even though it'll for sure weigh more. Mark my words and come back and visit this thread in 2020☺️. And it'll cost less than the LFA ($150k range) and be easier to get your hands on... everything the OP wanted correct?!? So OP, make sure you put your order in for what since it'll be pretty much what!
V.
V.
#45
Where would one find a new Turbo S for $150K?
the OP started this flunked out of high school thread asking for a $65K version of the LFA
the LCF will in no way cover that request
the OP started this flunked out of high school thread asking for a $65K version of the LFA
the LCF will in no way cover that request