Ordered my new car (2018 Buick Lacrosse)
04-27-17, 12:28 PM
#61
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Yeah, same with my dad.....a 1941 Buick. I liked the Buicks of the 1960s (had a used '65 Electra and a used '65 Skylark while in college) and the recent Opel-based Buicks following the GM buyout in 2009. Buick quality, though, tanked after the early-mid 70s, and IMO they built junk for some 30 years during the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s.
Encores are going like free beer during Happy Hour. Buick shops can't keep them in stock. The Encore's popularity is the main reason the Verano sedan is being dropped in the U.S. market....to free up factory/plant space for more Encore production.
The Roadmaster, like the 60's-vintage Electras, was superb in a straight line (I test-drove one)........cushy, quiet, soft-riding, reasonably powerful, and comfortable, but definitely was not a car for cornering, where it had the body-roll and response of a battleship.
Many of the former Olds customers simply gravitated over to Buick (same with the former Mercury crowd when Ford dumped the Mercury division)....and added to Buick's following. That's one reason why GM decided to keep Buick after the reorganization......that, and the brand's huge popularity in China.
You probably didn't really miss that much. I grew up with cars of that vintage when I was in high school. Except for the GTO's double-hood scoops, Endura rubber/vinyl full-front bumper, and, of course, the standard 400 c.i. V8, there wasn't much difference between the standard-model GTO and the LeMans Sport, especially inside, where the two interiors were virtually identical. And the LeMans cost less to insure and got better gas mileage. Now, of course, the bright orange 1970-71 GTO Judge, with the psuedo-flame decals applied to the front fenders and hood, was a different story......you could see (and sometimes hear) one of those coming from a half-mile away LOL. 
Buicks are (now) taking a significant amount of Cadillac's buisness from them, at least partly because recent Caddys are unreliable, have high sticker-prices, ride too stiffly for vehicles in that class, and have simply become too sport-oriented. By doing so, Cadillac lost a good part of their former loyal buyer-base. Before I ordered my Lacrosse, I checked out both the CT6 and CTS (did a full-review on the CT6), and wasn't terribly impressed with either one. In fact, I found the new Lincoln Continental and MKZ more impressive overall.
And now, it seems like he's come full circle with a Encore (got a super deal, apparently the dealers are getting marketing dollars to choose what car they want to move, listed for almost 38k, sold for 30k, and he even got them to remove all the dealer add ons and take off their conveyance fee and he said he wanted to do the tags himself so they took that off).
I personally like the Roadmaster Wagon with the LT1 motor. What a sweet true dual stainless steel exhaust that car has. What I liked about it, is the dual exhaust is asymmetrical. Pretty sure it's not even made anymore.
As someone who likes cars, I was disappointed to see Olds and Pontiac go.
I was given a 1970 LeMans Sport for free once, and as a young person, just pretended it was a GTO (it was a 250 I-6 with a 2-spd auto, 4 wheel drum brakes, and 25 y.o. lol)
....personally, I think Buick and Caddy still have a following and they need to recognize that and keep trying to build good products...
Last edited by mmarshall; 04-27-17 at 12:38 PM.
04-27-17, 12:36 PM
#62
Lexus Fanatic
Congrats by the way on your Lacrosse! Check out this website I stumbled upon, I like looking through the pics...one is a '94 LT1 Roadmaster wagon....
http://www.mcsmk8.com/
http://www.mcsmk8.com/94-ROADMASTER/ROADMASTER.html
http://www.mcsmk8.com/
http://www.mcsmk8.com/94-ROADMASTER/ROADMASTER.html
04-27-17, 04:37 PM
#63
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Congrats by the way on your Lacrosse! Check out this website I stumbled upon, I like looking through the pics...one is a '94 LT1 Roadmaster wagon....
http://www.mcsmk8.com/
http://www.mcsmk8.com/94-ROADMASTER/ROADMASTER.html
http://www.mcsmk8.com/
http://www.mcsmk8.com/94-ROADMASTER/ROADMASTER.html
That Roadmaster Estate Wagon is beautiful. I'd be interested in it myself, except that it's too big for my condo parking space. The new Lacrosse offers a good dose of that old large-Buick comfort in a more manageable size for modern driving conditions.
04-29-17, 09:53 AM
#64
Out of Warranty
Congrats Mike! I'm sure you're going to love the new Lacrosse, hope you get many miles of pleasure from it.
My Dad was a MoPar man - had been up until '54 when he defected to Oldsmobile. That was the car I learned to drive, a '54 Olds Super 88 (with the police package - seems it was a dealer loaner to the PD for four months). I've driven just about everything out there at one time or another, whether personal cars, trucks, or company cars. I discovered Buick in 1980, when I selected one from a list offered by my employer. I researched the options list and worked around the permitted options list to arrive at an outstanding highway cruiser. I added air shocks to the rear for carrying heavy loads in the trunk, but otherwise I drove it for three years with no problems whatsoever - unless I took it to a Buick dealer for service.
I'd driven Caprice Classic wagons while I was at another company, and they nice cars, if a bit wonky with that added wagon top up high in the back (badly needed a big sway bar back there to tame the seasickness-inducing ride). When I joined a company that didn't require me to drive a wagon, the LeSabre was, I discovered, a really fine car. It's sad that it's always had the reputation of being an "old man's car", but with a little tweaking you can adjust it to something of a more sporting nature - something most people don't realize.
Under the hood, mods become relatively expensive, but because the Buick powerplant is a garden-variety GM product, a lot of options available in other GM makes will bolt right on. A change to premium shocks (including those MaxAirs out back) tamed the ocean liner ride without degrading the softness of the Buick's suspension. If you want to make bigger changes, springs and a front sway bar will cure just about anything that remains. The best part of it was that my mods to the company car were carefully hidden in my expense reports and were totally invisible just sitting in the company parking lot.
Although it isn't my favorite color, I'd opted for a white company car for years because I could always use it as a reference while setting up cameras on location. No need to carry an expensive and unwieldy white balance chart, I was driving it. Just point the camera at the car and zoom in even from some distance away . . . click . . . done. Even my first RX300 was white - for the same practical reason. Now that I'm retired, I'm enjoying other options on the color chart.
My Dad was a MoPar man - had been up until '54 when he defected to Oldsmobile. That was the car I learned to drive, a '54 Olds Super 88 (with the police package - seems it was a dealer loaner to the PD for four months). I've driven just about everything out there at one time or another, whether personal cars, trucks, or company cars. I discovered Buick in 1980, when I selected one from a list offered by my employer. I researched the options list and worked around the permitted options list to arrive at an outstanding highway cruiser. I added air shocks to the rear for carrying heavy loads in the trunk, but otherwise I drove it for three years with no problems whatsoever - unless I took it to a Buick dealer for service.
I'd driven Caprice Classic wagons while I was at another company, and they nice cars, if a bit wonky with that added wagon top up high in the back (badly needed a big sway bar back there to tame the seasickness-inducing ride). When I joined a company that didn't require me to drive a wagon, the LeSabre was, I discovered, a really fine car. It's sad that it's always had the reputation of being an "old man's car", but with a little tweaking you can adjust it to something of a more sporting nature - something most people don't realize.
Under the hood, mods become relatively expensive, but because the Buick powerplant is a garden-variety GM product, a lot of options available in other GM makes will bolt right on. A change to premium shocks (including those MaxAirs out back) tamed the ocean liner ride without degrading the softness of the Buick's suspension. If you want to make bigger changes, springs and a front sway bar will cure just about anything that remains. The best part of it was that my mods to the company car were carefully hidden in my expense reports and were totally invisible just sitting in the company parking lot.
Although it isn't my favorite color, I'd opted for a white company car for years because I could always use it as a reference while setting up cameras on location. No need to carry an expensive and unwieldy white balance chart, I was driving it. Just point the camera at the car and zoom in even from some distance away . . . click . . . done. Even my first RX300 was white - for the same practical reason. Now that I'm retired, I'm enjoying other options on the color chart.
04-29-17, 10:37 AM
#65
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I just hope that new 9-speed automatic (jointly co-developed with Ford) turns out to be reliable. It is not a total Guinea-Pig in the 2018 Lacrosse (the 2017 had an 8-speed), since the new 9-speed was also used in this year's Chevy Malibu Premium trim-level with the 2.0L turbo, and had somewhat of a break-in on that vehicle. I had ordered a 2017, but the order was just a hair too late for the 2017s...I had to change it to the 2018 and the new tranny.
My Dad was a MoPar man - had been up until '54 when he defected to Oldsmobile. That was the car I learned to drive, a '54 Olds Super 88 (with the police package - seems it was a dealer loaner to the PD for four months).
When I joined a company that didn't require me to drive a wagon, the LeSabre was, I discovered, a really fine car. It's sad that it's always had the reputation of being an "old man's car", but with a little tweaking you can adjust it to something of a more sporting nature - something most people don't realize.
A change to premium shocks (including those MaxAirs out back) tamed the ocean liner ride without degrading the softness of the Buick's suspension. If you want to make bigger changes, springs and a front sway bar will cure just about anything that remains. The best part of it was that my mods to the company car were carefully hidden in my expense reports and were totally invisible just sitting in the company parking lot.
(and that's another thing I hope they don't screw with on the order-revision to the 2018...stiffening up the base suspension, as automakers often do from year to year. The 2017 with the 18" wheels and base-suspension rode just fine for my tastes......I hope the 2018 does too, with the same spring/shock-rates). There's no indication, though, in the 2018 order-guide, that the base-suspension or tires were revised any....the main additions (besides the usual color-changes, which don't affect my order) are the 9-speed for the non-hybrid models and a new hybrid drivetrain option for the top-line Premium trim level....I have the standard N/A V6, of course.
Although it isn't my favorite color, I'd opted for a white company car for years because I could always use it as a reference while setting up cameras on location. No need to carry an expensive and unwieldy white balance chart, I was driving it. Just point the camera at the car and zoom in even from some distance away . . . click . . . done. Even my first RX300 was white - for the same practical reason. Now that I'm retired, I'm enjoying other options on the color chart.
If I had bought an ES350 (which, like the Lincoln MKZ and Genesis G80, was also very high on my shopping list) I would have chosen the Atomic Silver. 
Last edited by mmarshall; 04-29-17 at 10:58 AM.
04-29-17, 01:16 PM
#66
Lexus Fanatic
Congrats Mike! I'm sure you're going to love the new Lacrosse, hope you get many miles of pleasure from it.
My Dad was a MoPar man - had been up until '54 when he defected to Oldsmobile. That was the car I learned to drive, a '54 Olds Super 88 (with the police package - seems it was a dealer loaner to the PD for four months). I've driven just about everything out there at one time or another, whether personal cars, trucks, or company cars. I discovered Buick in 1980, when I selected one from a list offered by my employer. I researched the options list and worked around the permitted options list to arrive at an outstanding highway cruiser. I added air shocks to the rear for carrying heavy loads in the trunk, but otherwise I drove it for three years with no problems whatsoever - unless I took it to a Buick dealer for service.
I'd driven Caprice Classic wagons while I was at another company, and they nice cars, if a bit wonky with that added wagon top up high in the back (badly needed a big sway bar back there to tame the seasickness-inducing ride). When I joined a company that didn't require me to drive a wagon, the LeSabre was, I discovered, a really fine car. It's sad that it's always had the reputation of being an "old man's car", but with a little tweaking you can adjust it to something of a more sporting nature - something most people don't realize.
Under the hood, mods become relatively expensive, but because the Buick powerplant is a garden-variety GM product, a lot of options available in other GM makes will bolt right on. A change to premium shocks (including those MaxAirs out back) tamed the ocean liner ride without degrading the softness of the Buick's suspension. If you want to make bigger changes, springs and a front sway bar will cure just about anything that remains. The best part of it was that my mods to the company car were carefully hidden in my expense reports and were totally invisible just sitting in the company parking lot.
Although it isn't my favorite color, I'd opted for a white company car for years because I could always use it as a reference while setting up cameras on location. No need to carry an expensive and unwieldy white balance chart, I was driving it. Just point the camera at the car and zoom in even from some distance away . . . click . . . done. Even my first RX300 was white - for the same practical reason. Now that I'm retired, I'm enjoying other options on the color chart.
My Dad was a MoPar man - had been up until '54 when he defected to Oldsmobile. That was the car I learned to drive, a '54 Olds Super 88 (with the police package - seems it was a dealer loaner to the PD for four months). I've driven just about everything out there at one time or another, whether personal cars, trucks, or company cars. I discovered Buick in 1980, when I selected one from a list offered by my employer. I researched the options list and worked around the permitted options list to arrive at an outstanding highway cruiser. I added air shocks to the rear for carrying heavy loads in the trunk, but otherwise I drove it for three years with no problems whatsoever - unless I took it to a Buick dealer for service.
I'd driven Caprice Classic wagons while I was at another company, and they nice cars, if a bit wonky with that added wagon top up high in the back (badly needed a big sway bar back there to tame the seasickness-inducing ride). When I joined a company that didn't require me to drive a wagon, the LeSabre was, I discovered, a really fine car. It's sad that it's always had the reputation of being an "old man's car", but with a little tweaking you can adjust it to something of a more sporting nature - something most people don't realize.
Under the hood, mods become relatively expensive, but because the Buick powerplant is a garden-variety GM product, a lot of options available in other GM makes will bolt right on. A change to premium shocks (including those MaxAirs out back) tamed the ocean liner ride without degrading the softness of the Buick's suspension. If you want to make bigger changes, springs and a front sway bar will cure just about anything that remains. The best part of it was that my mods to the company car were carefully hidden in my expense reports and were totally invisible just sitting in the company parking lot.
Although it isn't my favorite color, I'd opted for a white company car for years because I could always use it as a reference while setting up cameras on location. No need to carry an expensive and unwieldy white balance chart, I was driving it. Just point the camera at the car and zoom in even from some distance away . . . click . . . done. Even my first RX300 was white - for the same practical reason. Now that I'm retired, I'm enjoying other options on the color chart.
Guess what....my wife's car is also a pearl white tri coat (we bought it from stock was equipped as we wanted)....and now, my '06 LS430 is moonlight pearl. I think if I were to get a new car, it may be pearl white lol
I do see that touch ups don't seem to quite work out with a tri coat, even with a base and tint coat applied....BMW is space gray, and that was new for 2007 and exclusive to coupes. Now everyone under the sun has it, including sedans and SUVs, but I still like it...very strange, dad's Encore, the base model comes only in white? Then the next level up has color choices? very strange!
04-30-17, 11:21 AM
#67
Lexus Fanatic
Congrats by the way on your Lacrosse! Check out this website I stumbled upon, I like looking through the pics...one is a '94 LT1 Roadmaster wagon....
http://www.mcsmk8.com/
http://www.mcsmk8.com/94-ROADMASTER/ROADMASTER.html
http://www.mcsmk8.com/
http://www.mcsmk8.com/94-ROADMASTER/ROADMASTER.html
04-30-17, 04:12 PM
#68
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
The Fleetwood actually had a slightly stiffer suspension...partly because of its greater weight. My old Flight-Instructor (I am an ex-pilot) had a 1989 (same generation) Fleetwood, inherited when his uncle passed away. As we were (and still are) also personal friends (not just in the air), I spent a fair amount of time in it, and tried it out once or twice. Its trim, inside, was noticeably more plush than the Roadmaster's....but I think the Roadmaster was actually better-riding over bumps.
Last edited by mmarshall; 04-30-17 at 04:20 PM.
05-03-17, 05:57 PM
#69
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Back to my new car, since it's too late for a 2017, they changed my factory-order from a 2017 to a 2018 with the new 9-speed GM FWD transmission that is being introduced on next-year's Lacrosse, and one thing that concerned me was the potential durability and shift-characteristics of the new transmission. It's even more complex than the current 8-speed Aisin-built transmission used in the current 2017 Lacrosse....and those 9 gears could mean a LOT of shifting in stop and go conditions, together with the undefeatable engine start/stop system, placing wear on the unit.
Well, I had forgotten that the current 2017 Malibu 2.0L Turbo option (the Malibu's current top engine) also uses that new FWD 9-speed (which, along with a new 10-speed automatic for RWD use, was co-developed by GM and Ford). So, the all-new 9-speed, in next year's Lacrosse, will not be a completely untested Guinea-Pig, but will have had a year in at least some of the latest Malibus for any teething problems and TSB's (Technical Service Bulletins) to be addressed at the factory. The non-Hybrid version of the Malibu lacks the engine start/stop device on the Lacrosse, but, otherwise, the transmission is quite similar, if not identical, to what the new 2018 Lacrosse will use. . So (you probably guessed it)...I took a new 2.0T Malibu, with that transmission, out for a little test-drive today to see how the transmission operates. I put it through just about all of the possible manual and automatic shifts and cycles one could give it (without abusing it, of course).
While it's too early, of course, to gauge long-term durability of the unit, there are a few noticeable differences between the two units. The 8-speed Aisin unit on the 2017 Lacrosse has the (typical) big-Buick softness/sluggishness/slippage in its shifting...it is obviously designed and programmed for comfort, and not maximum efficiency or acceleration. The new 9-speed maintains the general level of smoothness, but shifts far more quickly...you're out of one gear and into another in a split-second, without any apparent slippage. In some cases, in full-automatic operation, the transmission is programmed to even skip some gears if they are not needed. You can sometimes feel a very minor, almost imperceptible bump with the shifting, and that bump seemed to get even smoother as I put a few miles on the transmission (the transmission's computer learns and adjusts to the way you drive). The new transmission also has such short-gearing in the lower gears that, coasting to a stop, you get a lot of compression-braking and drag-effect, and don't have to use the wheel brakes much at all....it's almost like the regenerative-braking effect you get with the electric motors on hybrids and full-electrics.
So, while I really liked the 2017 Mush-O-Matic Aisin-built 8-speed transmission (classic Big Buick-shifting) that I thought I was going to get, I can say, based on the performance of the new 9-speed in the Malibu, that I'm probably not going to have any real complaints with the new transmission, as long as it holds up....and that's where Buick/s generous 6/70 drivetrain warranty comes in, same as Cadillac, Lincoln, Acura, Lexus, and Infiniti. The shifting is virtually as soft as with the Aisin 8-speed, but significantly quicker and more efficient. Of course, I wasn't able to test its road-manners with the engine stop/start engine feature standard on all Lacrosses.....I'll have to wait for my new car for that. And the Malibu had a different shifter than the Lacrosse's electronic center-pop joy-stick....a traditional PRNDL fore-/aft lever with un-traditional rocker-switch on top of the lever that you rocked forward with your thumb to upshift and rocked it back to downshift. Chevy uses that type of lever in a number of its different products...I also remember it from previous Chevy test-drives.
https://www.gm.com/mol/m-2016-dec-1206-9speed.html
Well, I had forgotten that the current 2017 Malibu 2.0L Turbo option (the Malibu's current top engine) also uses that new FWD 9-speed (which, along with a new 10-speed automatic for RWD use, was co-developed by GM and Ford). So, the all-new 9-speed, in next year's Lacrosse, will not be a completely untested Guinea-Pig, but will have had a year in at least some of the latest Malibus for any teething problems and TSB's (Technical Service Bulletins) to be addressed at the factory. The non-Hybrid version of the Malibu lacks the engine start/stop device on the Lacrosse, but, otherwise, the transmission is quite similar, if not identical, to what the new 2018 Lacrosse will use. . So (you probably guessed it)...I took a new 2.0T Malibu, with that transmission, out for a little test-drive today to see how the transmission operates. I put it through just about all of the possible manual and automatic shifts and cycles one could give it (without abusing it, of course).
While it's too early, of course, to gauge long-term durability of the unit, there are a few noticeable differences between the two units. The 8-speed Aisin unit on the 2017 Lacrosse has the (typical) big-Buick softness/sluggishness/slippage in its shifting...it is obviously designed and programmed for comfort, and not maximum efficiency or acceleration. The new 9-speed maintains the general level of smoothness, but shifts far more quickly...you're out of one gear and into another in a split-second, without any apparent slippage. In some cases, in full-automatic operation, the transmission is programmed to even skip some gears if they are not needed. You can sometimes feel a very minor, almost imperceptible bump with the shifting, and that bump seemed to get even smoother as I put a few miles on the transmission (the transmission's computer learns and adjusts to the way you drive). The new transmission also has such short-gearing in the lower gears that, coasting to a stop, you get a lot of compression-braking and drag-effect, and don't have to use the wheel brakes much at all....it's almost like the regenerative-braking effect you get with the electric motors on hybrids and full-electrics.
So, while I really liked the 2017 Mush-O-Matic Aisin-built 8-speed transmission (classic Big Buick-shifting) that I thought I was going to get, I can say, based on the performance of the new 9-speed in the Malibu, that I'm probably not going to have any real complaints with the new transmission, as long as it holds up....and that's where Buick/s generous 6/70 drivetrain warranty comes in, same as Cadillac, Lincoln, Acura, Lexus, and Infiniti. The shifting is virtually as soft as with the Aisin 8-speed, but significantly quicker and more efficient. Of course, I wasn't able to test its road-manners with the engine stop/start engine feature standard on all Lacrosses.....I'll have to wait for my new car for that.
And the Malibu had a different shifter than the Lacrosse's electronic center-pop joy-stick....a traditional PRNDL fore-/aft lever with un-traditional rocker-switch on top of the lever that you rocked forward with your thumb to upshift and rocked it back to downshift. Chevy uses that type of lever in a number of its different products...I also remember it from previous Chevy test-drives.https://www.gm.com/mol/m-2016-dec-1206-9speed.html
Last edited by mmarshall; 05-03-17 at 06:16 PM.
05-03-17, 09:01 PM
#71
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
No. There will be an all-new 2018 Buick Regal unveiled this fall, which, like the 2017 Regal, will be a partially-rebadged (with GM powertrain) version of the 2018 Opel Insignia. Unusual for 2018 will be the fact that Buick will not offer the new American-market Regal in the usual 4-door sedan format, but only in 5-door hatchback and wagon versions. (no word yet about a new Regal GS sport-sedan). This is likely to be the last Opel-based Buick, as GM is selling off the Opel subsidiary. Too bad Opel is being sold off (IMO another bone-headed move by a corporation famous for bone-headed moves), because the well-built Opel-based Buicks really helped in the reliability department and improving the brand's reputation.
The new LaCrosse, on the other hand, rides on an all-new (P2XX) American-designed platform that will be shared with next year's all-new 2018 Chevy Impala. I hope (?) that Cadillac also does a version of it to replace the (IMO) unimpressive XTS....which I never thought much of. The XTS is Cadillac's only remaining FWD sedan....the ATS, CTS, and CT6 are all either RWD or AWD. So far, though, Cadillac has not announced any plans that I know of for a new FWD Lacrosse-based sedan....the recent development of the XT5 and upcoming XT3 and XT7 are probably eating up all of its development funds.
Last edited by mmarshall; 05-04-17 at 03:08 PM.
05-04-17, 04:15 AM
#72
Super Moderator
The transmission will probably be programmed differently in the Lacrosse than it is in the Malibu, "detuned" if you will. So you may wind up with a Mush-O-Matic anyway. But your test probably confirms that it won't be as clueless and lazy as the 9-speed that Honda uses in the Pilot and MDX, which would have been my concern. That transmission has the worst of both worlds. Agonizingly slow, but still unnecessarily firm shifts.
But your test probably confirms that it won't be as clueless and lazy as the 9-speed that Honda uses in the Pilot and MDX, which would have been my concern. That transmission has the worst of both worlds. Agonizingly slow, but still unnecessarily firm shifts.
05-04-17, 06:27 AM
#74
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
But your test probably confirms that it won't be as clueless and lazy as the 9-speed that Honda uses in the Pilot and MDX, which would have been my concern. That transmission has the worst of both worlds. Agonizingly slow, but still unnecessarily firm shifts.
05-04-17, 06:33 AM
#75
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Well, by now, some of you are probably sick and tired of hearing about my order.....indeed, this thread (and the one I posted earlier about the basic choice and shopping) turned out to be longer than I expected, with a lot of replies (and I thank those that contributed useful replies). And, of course, I know that some of you think that Buicks, particularly the Lacrosse and Enclave, are crap-astic or Grandpa vehicles, even if I disagree. I probably won't change your mind on that, and you probably won't change mine.
I probably won't have much more to say about my car until it arrives, which will still be a number of weeks yet.
So...MM out.
And, of course, I know that some of you think that Buicks, particularly the Lacrosse and Enclave, are crap-astic or Grandpa vehicles, even if I disagree. I probably won't change your mind on that, and you probably won't change mine.I probably won't have much more to say about my car until it arrives, which will still be a number of weeks yet.
So...MM out.
Last edited by mmarshall; 05-04-17 at 03:15 PM.