Feeling the pull of the SUV...drove a 2017 Range Rover HSE
03-31-17, 12:45 PM
#76
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
That's how my 2011 Jeep was. Made way worse by the fact that Jeep doesn't have loaners.
03-31-17, 12:55 PM
#78
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Never got close to being a lemon law issue. Varied issues, all minor but added up. Everything fixed right the first time. Never spent the required amount of time off the road.
If I had a loaner it wouldn't have been that big a deal but having each oil change stop take 3 days because of numerous small warranty issues without a loaner was a huge pain.
Examples of issues, switches that would stop working. HVAC went out once and the panel had to be ordered and replaced. Rear window leaked. So on and so forth.
If I had a loaner it wouldn't have been that big a deal but having each oil change stop take 3 days because of numerous small warranty issues without a loaner was a huge pain.
Examples of issues, switches that would stop working. HVAC went out once and the panel had to be ordered and replaced. Rear window leaked. So on and so forth.
03-31-17, 01:12 PM
#79
Lexus Champion
The issues I had weren't applicable to the lemon law because our lemon law only covers items which "substantially impair the use or safety of the car" which are not fixed despite repeated attempts to do so. The only thing I had that impacted the use was a stuck thermostat, which was replaced and fixed on the first try. Other things like a leaking hatch, headlight condensation, numerous rattles, etc. were covered by warranty but did not affect the use or safety of the car.
03-31-17, 01:52 PM
#80
This was the point in my lease comment, combined with the use of loaners. I always get a loaner for my MDX or my wife's ES for any service. Local Jag/RR dealer uses loaners as well. What I did not consider, is that I am less than 5 miles of the dealers, so it is no big deal for me to drop off the car in the morning and pick up after work, whereas for others it could be an inconvenience.
03-31-17, 03:31 PM
#81
Lexus Fanatic
You can probably answer that in one word...image. Though this area is not necessarily like the nation as a whole, many buyers in the region have money to spend, are image-conscious, and try to keep up with the Jones's.
03-31-17, 03:45 PM
#82
Lead Lap
+1 and also the fact that it is a good looking SUV as well. A friend of mine knows a service advisor at the local Land Rover dealer and he shows me some of his texts with pictures sometimes with comments like, "I don't know why people buy these things" because of some of the repairs they have to do and that sometimes they have to take the whole body off the frame to fix it. A friend of mine bought a RRS and they had an electrical issue when it was brand new and they had to take apart most of the interior to fix it which is something I am not used to in a new car. Regardless, I am still considering a new Discovery when they become available since I would be leasing it because I like the styling.
03-31-17, 05:53 PM
#83
Lexus Fanatic
Plus, you've got a to of people here with money. It's like Silicon Valley.
That's because Land Rover (along with Jaguar) is owned by India's Tata motors, and its management apparently puts up with these kind of quality-lapses. That probably wouldn't happen if they had somebody like VW's Ferdinand Piech running things. When Piech wanted better quality control, he would call in his managers and engineers, give them a set period of time to do it (usually not very long), and tell them they either do it or they are out of a job....he would personally can them all. Most of the time, it worked...although things apparently backfired on them with the diesel-emission issue.
Of course, Jaguar/Land Rover QC problems didn't start under Tata's ownership....not by any means. They, in fact, go back many decades. But, under Ford ownership, some significant progress was made in improving the reliability of both makes...only to be lost, once again, after the Tata move.
I'm with you on that.....for a Land-Rover product, in many cases, leasing probably makes more sense than buying, as long as you can follow the lease contract and honor the mileage and wear-and-tear clauses.
A friend of mine knows a service advisor at the local Land Rover dealer and he shows me some of his texts with pictures sometimes with comments like, "I don't know why people buy these things" because of some of the repairs they have to do and that sometimes they have to take the whole body off the frame to fix it. A friend of mine bought a RRS and they had an electrical issue when it was brand new and they had to take apart most of the interior to fix it which is something I am not used to in a new car.
Of course, Jaguar/Land Rover QC problems didn't start under Tata's ownership....not by any means. They, in fact, go back many decades. But, under Ford ownership, some significant progress was made in improving the reliability of both makes...only to be lost, once again, after the Tata move.
Regardless, I am still considering a new Discovery when they become available since I would be leasing it because I like the styling.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-31-17 at 05:57 PM.
03-31-17, 06:12 PM
#84
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Reliability is just not the be all and end all to a purchase of a car like that. Its such a neat vehicle that I would look past some reliability risks, as I did with the Jeep. I had a lot of issues with my 2011 Jeep but I liked it so much that I rolled the dice on the 2014 Jeep and it was fine for the year we had it.
FWIW my LS460 had a bad nav module when it was new, the entire dash and console was dissassembled when it had 340 miles on it to replace it...and I was without it for almost 2 weeks. I wasn't a happy camper. Things like that can happen to any car.
Originally Posted by patglim
A friend of mine bought a RRS and they had an electrical issue when it was brand new and they had to take apart most of the interior to fix it which is something I am not used to in a new car
04-01-17, 06:01 AM
#85
Lead Lap
I agree it can happen to any car but the chances of it happening can be higher with some brands. If it is a leased car and they had to do some major work I wouldn't be as upset but if it was a car I bought I wouldn't be a happy camper at all. When we looked at the LR4, which we loved, we were looking to buy and at the time I wasn't as comfortable with the cost to own as I was with the GX since I had a 470 prior to my 460. For our GX's it is really only routine maintenance and new tires around 40k and new brakes at 50k and those were very cheap to replace. With the GX there was one major design flaw (besides the styling) which was the secondary air pump and valves which is a $3k fix which is not a whether it will fail but when and they fixed mine out of warranty recently and finally issued a warranty update to 10 years/150k miles on that. When I researched on the RR forums there were many that had to replace both tires and brakes way earlier at much higher costs but now for whatever reason I don't care as much because I really want one (although I have driven the new one yet).
04-01-17, 07:19 AM
#86
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Yeah I you're going to keep the thing close to or over 100k miles I'd have misgivings
04-01-17, 12:18 PM
#87
Pole Position
Tires and brakes are just part of items that wear out and I expect to replace them. Driving style will have a lot to do with that. So I don't consider that when I'm looking at vehicles. And I think that more performance oriented cars will use up tires and brakes quicker. They are driven harder. I thought it was very accurate when the sales guy @ RR (Very competent, and very well informed) said "You don't buy one of these because you need transportation, you buy one because you want something fine, elegant, sexy, and high performance" You buy it because thats what moves you. You don't buy a Rolex because you want to tell time. Getting something semi-exotic, is going to take more attention to keep it in fine form. Worth it for many people.
04-02-17, 09:12 AM
#88
Lead Lap
Tires and brakes are just part of items that wear out and I expect to replace them. Driving style will have a lot to do with that. So I don't consider that when I'm looking at vehicles. And I think that more performance oriented cars will use up tires and brakes quicker. They are driven harder. I thought it was very accurate when the sales guy @ RR (Very competent, and very well informed) said "You don't buy one of these because you need transportation, you buy one because you want something fine, elegant, sexy, and high performance" You buy it because thats what moves you. You don't buy a Rolex because you want to tell time. Getting something semi-exotic, is going to take more attention to keep it in fine form. Worth it for many people.
Funny you mention Rolex, I am about to buy my first one this week and maybe one for the wife for all the reasons you mentioned. At least the maintenance is no more expensive and doesn't need servicing any more often than any other brands but the upfront pricing is a good bit more though I am lucky enough to get a discount.
04-02-17, 09:22 AM
#89
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
FWIW I have never had a set of tires last more than 35k miles on any Lexus I've ever had.
04-02-17, 01:59 PM
#90
Lexus Champion
I think we drove everything that was a possibility before buying the GX460. We absolutely loved the RR. It was by far the nicest and best drive of anything we drove. But we kept coming back to reliability issues, mostly perceived, and maybe not accurate anymore. Talked to people in parking lots about theirs. never got anything but "WE LOVE it". Had several people say "Buy 2, you will need one to drive while the other is in the shop". but most people said they hadn't had any problems with it. But on one of the several test drives, the sun roof would not retract all the way. It jammed, and would not move. That was actually the retractable liner. On a second test drive we had a similar issue with a window. So we decided against it, and bought the Lexus. I still want the RR, but the Lexus was a more responsible decision. As if buying any car is ever a responsible decision. I would have bought the LX, or LC instead, but wife didn't want something that big. I think we will really like the GX, but the RR lust is still there.
as empty nester I wanted to switch to RRS from BMW driving. At the end the switch was to Lexus RX hybrid. GX almost made it but SWMBO balked at barn door type
tailgate, LOL! I'll be interested in new Lexus SUV according to rumours.