mmarshall

Thanks for the input. . Appreciate it. I agree the Fusion is an excellent car...I've sampled a couple of the latest-generation ones, including the Hybrid...Ford has that test-drive program every year at the D.C. auto show, with the sign-up debit cards. There's also a new Sport Edition Fusion with a Twin-Turbo EcoBboost V6.....more power than I need, but probably fun to drive. The Lincoln MKZ, which currently is #2 on my list, right behind the LaCrosse, is a modified Fusion Platform, though somewhat more plush inside, and the same 2.0T (which is optional in the Fusion) as its base engine. I also like the MKZ's no-nonsense, easy-to-use, dash push-buttons for the transmission....the LaCrosse's E-shifter and ES350's zig-zag pattern, IMO, are both awkward....the E-shifter more so. One major problem, though, with the MKZ, is that, unlike the LaCrosse and ES350 (and Cadenza), it does not offer a reasonably-powered, N/A V6. With the MKZ, it's either all or nothing, from the base 2.0T to the 400 HP, boy-racer twin-turbo V6 (350 HP in FWD format to limit torque steer).

SW17LS

Yeah the Fusion Platinum is nice, my neighbor just got one.

Still dont get get the issue with Lexus gated shifter lol. To me it feels totally natural, the only gear you slide sideways out of is park, otherwise it just slides up and down through the gates...

mmarshall

Definitely better than that GM E-shifter, but IMO, still more annoying than it needs to be. Both my Lexus IS300 and Subaru Outback also had zig-zags. I understand the reasoning for the zig-zag pattern (the keep people with butterfingers from selecting the wrong gear). I don't have that problem, though, with a conventional pattern (never did) and still find a simple fore/aft PRNDL much easier to use. The zig-zag pattern, though, is not a deal-breaker...the E-shifter may or may not be (I'm still trying to get used to it).

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

fore/aft conventional shifters in my experience are often too 'loose' allowing one to easily shift to 2 or L (past D) from park. i think i prefer zig zag to straight fore/aft. my 2GS was zig zag and super high quality precise movements and no leather boot garbage. although jeep's now gone back to conventional shifter with crappy leather boot on the grand cherokee, i do really like my shifter - two clicks back from park (P-N-D) it goes into D and can't go anywhere else. 2 clicks forward from D to P. tap from D down shifts into and out of sport mode. very simple, very clean, small space. not sure what the fuss is about. of course the issue with the star trek guy who died because he somehow left his car in drive or neutral or something has now been resolved. i've tested this. if the car is in D and you open the door is automatically shifts to P.

a question... what is it that makes lacrosse #1 (besides the dealer) and mkz #2, yet cadenza #6 or 7!?

SW17LS

Owning cars with both types of shifters right now (zigzag and fore aft) I see no reason to prefer one over the other.

Totally understand not liking the e-shifter but I don't understand the issue with the gated shifter at all.

mmarshall

Well, the LaCrosse also has an undefeatable engine idle start/stop system I could do without, but my main beef is the electronic shifter. The shifter, like those on a number of BMWs I've sampled, also seems to be made out of a rather thin plastic that doesn't feel like it will stand up to repeated firm grips every day over the years. I've pretty much got the feel of it, though, for the three most-used basic functions...Drive, Reverse, and Park. But, shifter or not, I've always had somewhat of a personal attraction to big Buicks, dating back to my high-school/college days (I've already told that story...I won't repeat it here), though I avoided them for decades because of their shoddy assembly quality after the early 70s. The 2012 Verano was the first well-built Buick (to my standards) I had seen in decades, primarily because of its Opel-base, but the current LaCrosse seems reasonably well-built, if not with Opel-solidness. As you note, excellent dealer service and Buick's steadily rising position in reliability and customer-satisfaction rankings certainly don't hurt either.

The MKZ is #2 for a couple of reasons. First, though I've done a lot of Ford reviews, I've never actually owned a Ford or Lincoln product before, though I've cashed in on their test-drive and pre-paid card-offers many times. Second, I like the MKZ's no-fuss control and shifter layout....it is vastly improved this year with the face-lift. Third, it's based on the excellent Fusion underpinnings. Fourth, the new Continental front end really transforms the car's looks. Fifth, I personally know the General Manager of the local Ford/Lincoln shop....he once worked as a Lexus salesman, and actually sold me the yellow IS300 I bought more than 15 years ago. His dad owned a big Ford/Lincoln complex (that's how he got a hard-to-get 2-seat Thunderbird LOL), and, when the father passed, he got a family inheritance in the business. But both the MKZ and MKC seem rather loosely-built, with some (potential) reliability issues...they don't come from the factory with Lexus or Acura-type precision assembly.

The Cadenza is a possibility because of the excellent service my brother has gotten on the two Kias he has owned from that shop (a Soul and a Sportage) I don't feel quite as home in a Cadenza as I would in a LaCrosse, but I also believe that good service deserves repeat business. Making the deals, they treated me and my brother superbly (I helped him shop), both times when we bought new Kias there for him, and, IMO, may deserve more repeat business. And the Cadenza generally has tested out well in both reviews and reliability.

SW17LS

Ford makes good cars. I'd buy another Ford no problem.

mmarshall

When's the last time you've owned one? All you have ever spoken about (that I can remember) is JGCs, the Sedona, your LS, and your family's old ES.

SW17LS

Been a long time, I had a 1995 Ford Explorer Limited, it actually just got towed off and donated a year or so ago, my mom still had it. Over 200,000 miles, had a transmission rebuilt about 75,000 miles that was pretty common for those trucks, but all in all pretty reliable. Had the original rear air suspension that never failed!

The Explorer was actually my first car. My first car I bought new myself was my 03 ES300. My parents had many Fords before that Explorer.

mmarshall

An air-suspension that never failed would indeed be unusual. They were chronic, especially on Lincoln Town Cars. Ford even offered a low-cost conversion kit to standard suspension for those T/C owners with failed air-units who balked at the high price of repairs/replacements. It was cheaper to convert than to repair or replace it.

SW17LS

To be fair, they're pretty chronic on everything, even the Lexus LS has issues with air suspension failures. Same is true, people convert them to coil springs its much cheaper.

My Dad had a 1990 Lincoln Continental with an air suspension that failed. He was out with customers for lunch and when the valet brought his car around the rear end was dragging the ground lol

mmarshall

Yeah....I forgot about your dad's LC when I mentioned the list of family-owned vehicles you've talked about.

Is he still alive, or has he passed on? (if so, I'm sorry). It would be interesting to see what he thinks of today's Continental. Although the basic FWD V6 layout is familiar (except for today's AWD option that the 1990 lacked), the difference in interiors is enormous.

Och

iTrader: (3)

You're in Florida. If you lived in the snow belt and ever had to rock your car out of snow the conventional shifter is MUCH more convenient.

SW17LS

He died in 2010. He probably would have liked the new Continental, the main reason why he drove domestic cars for as long as he did (he had a Oldmobile Cutlass when I was really little, then he had a 1987 Chrysler Fifth Avenue, then the 1990 Lincoln Continental, 95 Cadillac STS and then the 98 LS400, after that he had an 04 LS430 which he had when he died) was because he did a lot of business with labor unions, and he was concerned about the optics of driving a foreign made car. He wanted the Lexus when it came out for 1990, but that was a big reason he didn't get one, he thought about it again in 1995 but at that time it was considerably more money than the STS and he had the same issue, when he got the LS he finally just said screw it and went for it. He really loved his Lexuses which is a big reason why I like them so much I think. I don't think I could envision him going back to a Cadillac or a Lincoln. He considered it when the lease was up on the LS400 because his company wanted to buy him a company car, but they had a price cap of something like $45k. He drove all sorts of things but couldn't go back to a cheaper car so he had them buy his LS400 out of the lease. He was able to get them to spring for the LS430 the next time around, which they sold to him for $1,000 when he retired a few years later (not a bad deal lol).

He didn't really share my strong feelings about RWD vs FWD. The main thing he disliked about his LSs were how terrible they were in the snow, he always liked how his FWD cars could get around (he would go to work no matter what the weather). He really loved them though, especially the LS400.

gs400998

If you have seen his RC F review:

His latest review on the Ford Fusion: