fungke

So my wife's Toyota is coming off lease in about a year or so and I started window shopping for her next vehicle.
Initially, I wanted to pick her up a used Lexus NX/RX, instead of a brand new Rav4. However in our discussions, safety tech is an important factor in her vehicle.

To my understanding, it used to be that the more premium brands had the latest and greatest safety tech, but now, it seems that a base Toyota model is equipped with stuff like PCS with pedestrian detection, Lane Departure Alert with steering assist, Dynamic Radar Cruise...

If safety is one of the priorities in our purchase, does it make sense to go with a used vehicle that may not be equipped with the tech or would need to get a higher trim of the used vehicle to get the tech?

thoughts?

mmarshall

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that the best contribution to safety is two eyes that stay on the road, one or two hands always staying on the steering wheel, keeping one's speed down in line with road conditions, keeping cell-phones, texters, and other electronic devices turned OFF, and (last and most important), not making excuses for failing to do the above.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

mmarshall - the post asked about safety tech, not some nostalgic view about hands on the wheel, eyes ahead, so i don't think that's helpful.

fungke, if safety tech is a priority, and a used car doesn't have it, why would you consider it?
but if a used luxury car you look at doesn't have it, and you can't afford more, then consider leasing new, buying new down market some, or, if you can find the tech you want in an older luxury model, go for it, but of course the older the model, the less likely it is to have the modern safety tech.

Sulu

If these "safety nannies" are important to you and your wife, they are being offered free (i.e. offered as standard equipment without need to pay more for factory-installed options) across the whole Toyota lineup. The automotive reviewers and critics are applauding Toyota for offering this equipment for free on all models in the lineup, when other automakers do not yet offer an equivalent package and/or do not offer the package as standard equipment.

The lower-priced models, such as the Toyota Corolla iM carry the Toyota Safety Sense C (TSS-C) system that consists of:

• Pre-Collision System
• Lane Departure Alert
• Automatic High Beam

The higher-priced models, including the Corolla, RAV4 and Highlander (but not the Camry) carry the Toyota Safety Sense P (TSS-P) system that consists of:

• Pre-Collision System with Pedestrian Detection
• Lane Departure Alert
• Lane Departure Alert with Steering Assist
• Automatic High Beam
• Dynamic Radar Cruise Control

Look it up on the Toyota Canada website.

And you may be right. In my quick search on the Lexus Canada website, I could not find evidence that the equivalent Lexus Safety System is (yet) offered across the whole Lexus lineup.

I found that the 2017 Lexus ES carries the Lexus Safety System+ as standard equipment, consisting of:

• Pre-Collision System (I can only assume that this also includes Pedestrian Detection, since it is not explicitly specified)
• Automatic High Beam
• Dynamic Radar Cruise Control
• Lane Departure Alert With Steering Assist

But I could not find these features nor "Lexus Safety System" among the features of the Lexus NX (the Lexus equivalent to the RAV4). Maybe the rollout to the entire Lexus lineup is slower.

mmarshall

Personally, I don't consider that view as nostalgic...just simple common sense. And I'm not saying that all safety-nanny equipment is bad. I'll accept your view as a moderator, though.....I always have.

FYI, some of the equipment you want (along with the AWD) is also available in Subarus....you don't necessary have to limit yourself to a Toyota or Lexus product.

fungke

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

mmarshall, I am not limiting my search to just Toyota/Lexus. My wife actually does like the Forrester. But I guess to be more clear, my question is about whether or not the newer vehicles that come standard with these safety nannies are any better than the ones found on older luxury vehicles. Or should I look at it as a technology and in order to get the latest and greatest, I should just get a new car as opposed to a used one.

Although they are a different class of car, I have been looking for a used 2013/2014 GS for myself. That comes with PCS, rear cross traffic......But if I am to compare, should I assume that the standard safety tech on a new RAV 4 is significantly more advanced than the one found on the older GS?

This may be a no brainer, actually....but I am just wondering if there is something more advanced in the safety tech on the older premium brands.

mmarshall

In most cases, I'm of the opinion that a new car is better than a used one, less of a potential risk, and that also applies to safety gear as well. For instance, you wouldn't want to be stuck with an older vehicle that had those defective Takada air-bag units stuck in it (and they were produced by the millions). But there are also other factors to take into account, though not always directly related with safety....things like what insurance will run for a newer vs. used car, whether your jurisdiction in Ontario collects a personal property tax on the yearly assessed value of your car (some states and counties in the U.S. do), and how long you plan to keep it. Obviously, the newer the vehicle, the longer the potential life.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I believe there is a law requiring these nonsense safety nannies in all cars by 2022. I have this garbage in my X6M, and I shut it off completely every time I drive it. But I went to test drive the new 5 series yesterday, and it does not let you shut it off - only lane departure and blind spot detection can be shut off, not pedestrian detection or front collision detection. I absolutely despise this tech, it can be potentially very dangerous. I don't want the car to suddenly start braking and take over steering and throttle if a sensor goes bad, or it confuses a flying plastic bag with a pedestrian when there's a semi behind me hauling a$$ at 80mph.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

^^^ why buy a luxury vehicle if you don't want tech gadgets?

but you're right, the tech is coming to all vehicles, and quickly.

do you not like stuff like parking sensors and cross traffic alert? i find them invaluable. CTA in particular when backing out of a parking spot and it warns me that someone's driving through the lane that i never even saw.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Parking sensors, cameras, etc are awesome techs. But tech that can suddenly take over control away from me, no thanks. Unfortunately by 2022 it won't even be an option, it will be standard on all cars.

mmarshall

QFT. I'm totally with Och on this one. I don't think that many who are sold on these systems are considering all the ramifications of them, like Och is (correctly) doing.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

except it's not 'truth', it's yours and Och's OPINION.

more and more drivers are becoming more and more distracted, and more and more frantic. that combined with more and more traffic means we should all welcome sensors and systems that mean these cars are watching how bad these drivers are and will intervene. and yes, that's my opinion.

coolsaber

IMO if you want anything tech related, newer usually better. However its good to compare manual descriptions of each acronym

The tech like cameras are only switching to HD resolution on the higher end euro imports, so its still low res on everything else. The Toyota Safety Suite is comparable to the 16 onwards LSS+, the older gen was lacking. Heck theres a difference in LSS+ 16 vs 17.

Anyways safety tech is adds an additional layer of protection on the road, but as MM said not a replacement for good ole situational awareness. Best to compare tech in manuals as ads are misleading, and lookout for magazines without semi-auto comparisons to see whose doing what the best

Och

iTrader: (3)

Is the scenario I described not possible? At the very least there should be an option to shut this intrusive tech off.

mmarshall

I did not say otherwise...except to note that Och, IMO, was correct.

Of course, while no one is perfect, good drivers, IMO, don't allow themselves to become distracted.