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Old 03-17-17, 07:17 PM
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mmarshall
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Default MM Full-Review: 2017 Chevrolet Volt

By CL-member request, a Review of the 2017 Chevrolet Volt.

http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.html

IN A NUTSHELL: Superb drivetrain, and a much-improved dash and console this year, but IMO interior trim and comfort is poor.

CLOSEST AMERICAN-MARKET COMPETITORS: Ford C-Max Energi, Toyota Prius Prime, Audi A3 Sportback E-Tron, and (upcoming) plug-in Hybrid versions of the Kia Niro and Hyundai Ioniq.
(I did not include any full-electrics, conventional non-plug-in hybrids, or plug-in hybrids that are in a larger-size or substantially more expensive price class then the Volt).















OVERVIEW:

(Just a heads-up, folks....there is some ranting and complaining about the Volt's history in here, so, if that's not what you want to hear, then this review may not be for you).

The original First-Generation Chevrolet Volt, also known as the Opel/Vauxhall Ampera in Europe, was released in the American market for the 2011 model year. It was one of the first of what became known as an Extended-Range, "Plug-in" hybrid......one that could run for a significant distance on just the electric motor and battery alone, without any help or recharging from the gas engine. Previous American-market hybrids, whether of the "Series" type (where the electric motor simply backed up the gas engine when more power or a start was needed), or of the more complex "Parallel" type, where either powerplant could operate the drive wheels as needed, could not go a significant distance without the gas engine cutting in to recharge. Early model Volts, on a full hybrid-battery charge, could go up to 40 miles without the gas engine cutting in to recharge, and could be plugged into 110V or 220V home-outlets for overnight or 4-hour recharging. This meant, of course, that owners who kept the battery charged each night and had a fairly short commute in the daytime were using the gas engine very little, if at all......the car, for all practical purposes, was functioning as a pure-electric. Of course, the gas engine had to run some now and then to keep its oil and coolant warm and flowing and the internals lubed, so it wouldn't deteriorate, and the engineers programmed some of that in. But, still, owners doing that had to gas up very little.....maybe once every two months. (the new Second-Generation Volt uses newly-developed system where the gas engine never directly drives the wheels at all....more on that below).

Other automakers, of course, came out with Extended-Range Hybrid competitors of their own, and are still doing so....probably the most well-known being the Toyota Prius Plug-ins and the new Prius Prime. Of those competitors, I myself liked the Ford C-Max Energi, though there was some controversy on its actual-vs.-claimed EPA fuel mileage. But, of course, in general, you paid more for those extended-range, plug-in models than you did for conventional Series or Parallel hybrids....the plug-in versions had additional charging-hardware on them and a more advanced, higher-capacity Lithium-Ion hybrid battery-pack vs. the older cheaper Nickel-Hydride ones.

Most of the time, I don't write up reviews just to concentrate on myself rather than on the car. But, in this case, I'd be remiss if I said I liked the First-Generation Volt, or thought highly of it....I most certainly did NOT. Yes, GM does gets credit for developing a car that, with its advanced and sophisticated drivetrain, was probably as much, or almost as much, of a benchmark as the original Toyota Prius Hybrid of 2000 (the smaller, 2-seat Honda Insight Hybrid preceded the original Prius in the American market by several months, but IMO, was more of a toy than a true automobile). So, yes, I'll give GM kudos for that, and they spent a great deal of time, resources, money, and PR on the first Volt. But, IMO, the car had several major faults. First, at $41,000 list, IMO, it was overpriced....you were paying a Cadillac price for a compact Chevrolet sedan, albeit one with an advanced drive train. With options, Volts sitting on the lot (when you could find them) typically ran 47-48K with options and freight.....and a lot of dealerships were adding 3-5K on top of that from the hype and media-attention the car was getting. So, out the door, you were talking around $50,000 or more for one (Ouch!). Yes, the IRS, at the time, gave you a $7000 tax-credit, so that lowered the price down into the low 40s...after you got your tax refund the next year. But, IMO, that was a heck of a lot of money for a car like that.....and I didn't make any bones about that in my review at the time. Toyota, when they introduced their First-Generation Prius Plug-in a few months later, priced it at a more reasonable $33,000......$8000 less than the Volt. An embarrassed GM, in return, dropped the Volt's price by $5000.

Second, I thought the styling was awkward...the squat and step-up trunk-sill behind the C-pillar looked like the equally-awkward mid-1980s Buick Somerset/Olds Cutlass Calais (for those of you who remember them). Third, it was relatively cramped inside and not particularly space-efficient. Fourth, the console and dash was an absolute mess...the large white (yes, WHITE) console had medium-gray labeling on the almost identical-looking buttons that was very difficult to read, and the shift-lever for the transmission (actually a thick bar-shaped handle, not a lever per se), in the PARK position, was hidden inside a big hole in the forward part of the console....you had to stick your hand down in it to reach and grab the lever (and there wasn't much room for a large hand). Just an awful design, IMO. The video-screen gauge cluster, behind the steering wheel, which looked lie something out of a Japanese Pachinko parlor, was only marginally better. IMO there was only one direction the Second-Generation Volt could go from this, and that's up. And up it did go...the Second-generation Volt, when it was introduced last year (2016), is definitely better than the first along those ones (more on that below), though it still lags in interior comfort and space-efficiency.

For 2017, the Volt comes in two different trim-models...the LT ($33,220) and Premier ($37,570). Some sources on the press (the Chevy website is numb on this) refer to the new Volt as a "sedan", but it is, in fact, a 5-door hatchback (verified by the price stickers), with a hatch-lid extending well up into the sharply-raked roofline. Both versions of the Volt come with a VVT-i, Direct-Injected, in-line four cylinder gas engine and the accompanying twin electric-drive motors.....Chevy doesn't state many spec-details about the system on its web-site, except to verify 149 HP and 294 ft-lbs. of torque (no RPMs given)....I usually don't like to post drive-train specs unless they are verified by the manufacturer on the web site. An interesting motion-graph system of how the power-flow system operates is given on the Volt's website, though. Like most advanced extended-range hybrids, the Volt uses a lithium-ion battery pack, although there is also a small conventional battery in the trunk....more on that later. Chevy doesn't even list a transmission-spec on their web-site. According to Chevy reps, the car runs continuously through the electric motors, and the single-speed transmission is essentially built into the final-drive unit, and powers the front wheels. The gas engine merely acts as a large generator, recharging the electric motors when the hybrid battery-pack is depleted, and the gas engine does not directly power the car at any time through a transmission of its own (more on this below, in the ON THE ROAD section).

As usual, for the static-review, I checked out a couple of different versions. For the test-drive, I chose a dark red LT model with no options other than paint.....it listed for a reasonable 34K. I was very pleased and impressed with the car's road manners and the way it drove (much nicer than the Cruze Diesel I sampled recently), and there were some noted improvements inside, but still some major lapses in comfort and space-efficiency. Details coming up.



MODEL REVIEWED: 2017 Chevrolet Volt LT Hatchback

BASE PRICE: $33,220


OPTIONS:

Siren Red (actually a burgundy-red) Tintcoat Paint; $395


DESTINATION/FREIGHT: $875 (about average for this class)

LIST PRICE AS REVIEWED: $34,490



DRIVETRAIN: FWD, Transverse-mounted 1.5L VVT, Direct-Injected in-line four gas engine, twin permanent-magnet electric-propulsion motors, total system 149 HP, 294 ft-lbs.of torque, single-speed transmission/final-drive unit, lithium-ion hybrid battery pack.


EPA MILEAGE RATING: Gas: 42 MPG Combined, Electric: 104 MPG gas-equivalant. 53 mile range with electric only use (under ideal conditions).


EXTERIOR COLOR: Siren Red Tintcoat

INTERIOR: Jet Black/Black Cloth



PLUSSES:

Superb drive-train...one of the best I have seen in a hybrid.

Can run for an extended distance on the electrics alone, with no gas.

Generally good road manners.

Much-improved dash and console ergonomics for the second-generation.

Price more reasonable than before.

Widespread Chevrolet dealer-network insures convenient service/repair access.

Qualifies (depending on jurisdiction) for tax-credits and/or HOV-priviledges.

Attractive steering wheel, like on most Chevys.

Relatively simple button/control layout for a hybrid.

Decent paint job....but not up to Toyota/Lexus/Audi standards.

Decent-quailty exterior sheet metal and solid-closing doors.



MINUSES:

Uncomfortable front seats are too firmly padded and lack support.

Rear roofline much too low for tall person to enter/exit.

High-mounted rear seats only make that situation worse.

Unimpressive interior trim materials.

Brake-fluid reservoir-cap difficult to reach and refill.

The two nicest (IMO) exterior colors cost almost $400 extra.

Cargo area not particularly spacious despite the hatchback design.

No spare tire.

No body-side moldings for parking-lot protection.

Not the best stereo sound quality I've heard.



EXTERIOR:

Outside, the new Volt bears a rather close resemblance to the similar-sized Cruze, somewhat larger Malibu, and substantially larger Impala.. It can be easily recognized as a member of the Chevy sedan/hatchback family....though the smaller Sonic and Spark are somewhat different. It has about the same roofline as the Cruze sedan (a Cruze 5-door hatchback is also available), but, unlike the Cruze, the Volt combines the low roofline of the Cruze sedan with a hatchback lid....indeed, the Volt's rear roofline is even more raked. Up front is the usual Chevy horizontal bar-grille and handsome gold bow-tie logo. The shiny black plastic 'Volt" logo-trim plaques remain on the two front fenders....a holdover from the last-genenration model. The sheet metal seems reasonably solid...especially the well-done hood (more on that below). The paint job is typical GM...generally quite well-done except for traces of orange-peel with some of the colors. Eight exterior colors are offered (mostly dull)...and the two cheeriest colors (the bright blue and White Pearl) cost $395 extra. The standard 17" wheels and low-rolling-resistance 50-series tires are, oddly, a slightly-lower profile than those found on the Cruze Diesel I recently sampled. The rear roofline is severely raked...and that makes for quite difficult rear-seat access....more on that below. The doors and hatch-lid shut with a reasonably solid thunk.



UNDERHOOD:

Open the solid-feeling hood (it opens and shuts with surprising precision and solidness, indicating careful alignment and fitting), and there is the usual insulation pad on the underside. A manual prop-rod is provided instead of nice gas struts, but the hood is not particularly heavy, even though solid-feeling. Inside the rather small compartment, the 1.5L four-cylinder gas engine, twin electric motors, final-drive unit, and all of the associated hardware is naturally somewhat of a tight fit, though there is some room on the front side of the engine to reach components. The usual large plastic engine cover for the gas engine blocks most of the top-access. The battery for the gas engine is under the trunk floor (unlike most hybrids, where the gas engine often relies on the big hybrid battery-pack for cold starts). The dipsticks, reservoirs, and filler-caps are generally well-marked and easy to reach, except for the brake-fluid reservoir, whose cap is partly hidden under a lip protruding forward of the firewall. One will probably not have to add brake fluid very often, though, as brake-pad and rotor wear (which can lower the fluid level) is usually minimal with the regenerative braking on hybrids.

Just a word of caution, though (and I say this as an auto enthusiast myself): Unless you are either an ASE-Certified Technician with training in Hybrid systems, have had approved factory training on those systems, or are otherwise in a position to know EXACTLY what you are doing (some owners THINK they do, but actually don't), don't try and do anything underhood but the most simple procedures and/or fluid checks/refills. All of that hardware may look harmless on the surface, but could zap you to Kingdom Come if you make an error. Even fire-fighters and other emergency personnel sometimes have to use special procedures for responding to fires in hybrid and electric vehicles...and they, of course, have had the training for it.



INTERIOR:

The dash and console of the second-generation Volt, IMO, is MUCH better than the original version. As I said earlier, I thought that the original version's all-white console/center-dash, gray button-lettering that was very difficult to read clearly on the white background, the awkward shifter-bar for the transmission that was tucked away inside a tunnel, and the video-arcade gauge-panel bordered on ludicrous. Virtually all of that has been addressed in the second-generation dash and console, which now uses a conventional GM shifter and fore/aft PRDNL pattern. The main gauge-panel is still an electronic video-screen, but, in general, easier to decipher and read than the previous one was.

Unfortunately, the big improvements in the dash and console don't carry over into the interior's seating and headroom. Though the rather low side-bolsters didn't intrude on my rump or back, and the leather seemed a nice grade (real leather is standard in the Premier, and an option on the LT), the front bucket seats were both quite small for a person my size, with very hard padding for both the bottom cushion and the seat-back...I felt like I was sitting on a park bench. This is not the first recent GM product I've sampled, BTW, with small, hard front seats....the Chinese-built Buick Envision has the same problem, but to a lesser extent. Headroom in the front seat is adequate for tall persons my size (6' 2"), but, in back, due to the sharply-raked roofline and the somewhat high-mount of the rear seats to clear the hybrid battery-pack, is worse than in some pony cars I've sampled. I had to bend my head WAY down like a pretzel, almost into my lap, to get myself in and out....and legroom was equally embryo-like unless the front seats were pushed way up to where the front-seat passengers would probably be cramped.

Other than that, the interior is more or less typical of lower-level American-designed Chevys. Average-grade plastic is used for a significant part of the dash and door-panel trim, with a few soft-touch surfaces here and there. The button/**** pattern, part of the dash/console redesign, is much easier to see, read, and use than before. The steering-wheel, though with plastic spokes, uses the nice three-spoke design and gold Chevy bow-tie logo that is found in most of the division's products (I actually like the Chevy steering-wheels better than in the Buicks). The ceiling headliner, though basically hard, has a very thin fabric material on it to nicen up the feel just a little...as do the hard-plastic sun-visors. The flat-black, thin-plastic wiper and turn-signal stalks, though, on the steering column, look and feel bargain-basement. I wasn't impressed with the silver-plastic interior trim.....I would have much preferred (even fake) wood-tone, but that option does not seem to be available. The stereo, in many radio stations, did not produce particularly good sound quality by today's standards, though I think part of that was because, on the test-drive, I was far enough away from D.C. that many of the non-satellite stations came in a little weak. It might have been a little better closer to town where most of the stations are.


CARGO COMPARTMENT/TRUNK:

As previously mentioned, the Volt "sedan" is actually a hatchback. The hatch-lid runs well up into the roof-line (open it up in the rain, and the rear-seat passengers, already cramped, might get a quick shower LOL). The cargo area itself is roomy from front to back, but the relatively high cargo floor (which partly covers the big hybrid battery-pack underneath) and the low hatch-lid height limit vertical space, top to bottom....so don't plan, for example, to carry tall boxes or other tall items, unless you can lay them on their side and have them still fit in. A fabric cargo-cover, to hide cargo from prying eyes, is attached/detached by thick elastic loops and pins on the sides of the compartment. A cargo-net is an accessory. The trunk floor itself is fairly well-finished with a decent black fabric covering....a similar but thinner-feeling covering on the side walls. A small door and compartment is built into the left side wall, near the back. Under the floor is the aforementioned battery for the gas engine....I couldn't find even a temporary spare tire.


ON THE ROAD:

As mentioned above, the electric motors and transmission/final drive provides the actual drive-power for the car, with the gas engine simply acting as a generator when needed. The single-speed transmission has a "D" Drive and "L" (Low) position on the shift lever, but it is not a true low gear....simply a drive-mode which increases the amount of regenerative braking and limits speed, which comes into use on steep grades (there is also a MOUNTAIN setting in the drive mode itself, along with HOLD, NORMAL). Mountain setting programs the electric-recharge rate for long or steep grades, so that either the gas or electric motor will be overworked (the long and excessively steep 3.25 mile hill on U.S. 40, averaging a 10% grade, from the top of Mount Summit-Chestnut Ridge in Western Pennsylvania, to the valley towns of Hopwood and Uniontown is a perfect example....one of the best in the Eastern U.S.). The HOLD setting preserves the electric charge for when it will be needed later, if you don't want to use it now. Regardless of drive mode, of course, the ECU programming runs the gas engine enough to keep its own battery charged and the internals of the engine lubricated....which is important, as non-use of a gas engine for extended periods can be harmful to it.

As I mentioned in the opening section, I really like the way this powertrain operates. It is, IMO, arguably the best-driving gas/electric hybrid I've ever sampled, although the new Toyota Prius Prime comes close. The Cruze diesel I sampled recently ran smoothly most of the time, but had some faint clatter at idle, and engaged from the engine start/stop mode at idle with some vibration and noise. Not so with the new Volt...not even close. The Volt's drivetrain, at all times, was just like butter, although you could hear the gas engine RPM at times recharging the hybrid battery (there is no tachometer for the gas engine, because it is not controlled by the throttle). The drivetrain is butter-smooth because there is no gas engine start-up from rest......the car is accelerated (and regenerative-braked) at all times by the electric motor alone. And the electric motor's strong torque at low RPMs (Chevy claims 294 ft-lbs.) smoothly pushes you back into your seat when you step on it.....too bad that seat isn't a little more comfortable. With the single-speed electronic transmission/final-drive unit, of course, you don't feel any lurching or hesitation from gear-changes, either. Folks, you have to sample this one for yourselves.....I think most of you will be impressed.

As for the rest of its road manners, the new Volt's chassis seems generally well-done, and it is quite composed on the road, though steering response is not particularly quick by compact-sedan standards. Road noise is generally low, and ride comfort generally good, despite the low-profile, low-rolling-resistance tires (low-resistance tires are often used on cars designed for high MPG figures). Wind noise is also fairly well-controlled, despite the somewhat unimpressive door construction and materials. The MOUNTAIN drive-setting may come in handy, since the regenerative braking, from coasting, did not feel quite as strong as on some other recent hybrids I've sampled, but that may have been from attempts from the engineers to make the brake pedal less touchy....a problem on some hybrids. The brake pedal itself was not well-located for big Circus-Clown size-15 shoes like mine...I had to take some care lifting my right foot from the gas pedal and going to the brake without it getting hung up on the underside of the brake pedal. But, all in all, basically an enjoyable experience on the road.



THE VERDICT:

Well, up to now, the Toyota Prius has been the disputed King of the American hybrid market. And, to be honest, the new 2017 Prius Prime, despite its Halloween-mask body styling, varies on the tradition of excellent Toyota/Lexus hybrid drivetrains. As I mentioned earlier, the initial first-generation Volt had what was IMO several major issues. Two of those issues, though (the lousy console/shifter/dash design and the overpricing) seem to have been dealt with....the Volt I tested today listed at a reasonable 34K, with possible tax credits on top of that. And the new Volt's drivetrain is probably the closest thing I've seen to perfection yet in a hybrid. So, move over, Prius......you've got some company.

But.....not quite totally. The new second-generation Volt still has some issues inside, despite the much-improved dash and console. The front seats are simply too Park-Bench-Like for my tastes. The high rear seat and low roofline forces even average-sized adults (never mind those my size) to contort themselves into a Bachmann Pretzel to get in and out (or even to sit in). And the interior trim, IMO, particularly in the all-black interior, looks and feels more to me like something out if a 15K econobox than a sophisticated hybrid costing more than twice as much. But, if you like an economical, butter-smooth and flexible drivetrain, and can overlook those interior faults, then this just may be the car for you.

And, as Always......Happy Car-shopping.

MM

Last edited by mmarshall; 03-18-17 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 03-18-17, 06:16 AM
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bagwell
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great info Mike!

did I miss it or did you leave out the 2017 Volt's 53 mile electric-only range??? I saw you mentioned the 40 mile of the 1G.

thanks!
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Old 03-18-17, 06:58 AM
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Coming off a lease of a Cmax Energi, I highly considered this car. There were a couple deal breakers for us. One, you can not get power seats (let alone memory) in any model, including the top of the line Premier. Second, visibility is poor. Lastly, we would be driving this car on regular 350 mile round trips to see family. The tank is very small, so the cruise range is poor. We ended going with the Honda Accord Hybrid Touring which we love and has all the bells and whistles, along with a 700+ range. The highway mpg is better than the Volt, although we lost the plug in benefits for short trips/commuting.
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Old 03-18-17, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bagwell
great info Mike!
Thanks. Some of the specs on this car are not easy to get, even on Chevy's own website.


did I miss it or did you leave out the 2017 Volt's 53 mile electric-only range??? I saw you mentioned the 40 mile of the 1G.
You're right. I didn't specifically mention it......I went back and added that to the gas/electric-mileage ratings. Of course, that is an arbitrary figure that is good only under the most ideal of conditions.......mild weather, good visibility (no climate-control or wiper use), level road surfaces, and light weight/load in the vehicle. As the disclaimer so often says (and means)..."Your mileage will vary".
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Old 03-18-17, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by DP03
Coming off a lease of a Cmax Energi, I highly considered this car. There were a couple deal breakers for us. One, you can not get power seats (let alone memory) in any model, including the top of the line Premier. Second, visibility is poor. Lastly, we would be driving this car on regular 350 mile round trips to see family. The tank is very small, so the cruise range is poor. We ended going with the Honda Accord Hybrid Touring which we love and has all the bells and whistles, along with a 700+ range. The highway mpg is better than the Volt, although we lost the plug in benefits for short trips/commuting.
The C-Max Energi is a very nice product. It has significantly more room inside (particularly headroom) than the Volt for tall people. If space-efficiency were a big issue with me, I'd get the C-Max over the Volt in an instant. But the Volt's butter-smooth drivetrain can seduce you if you can tolerate the somewhat El Cheapo and uncomfortable seats and interior.

As for the power seat issue, I agree that it is nice, if possible, to have the motors doing the work for you. But I personally found that, in both the cloth and leather-seat versions of the Volt, I was somewhat uncomfortable on the firm seat-padding and back-rest no matter how I adjusted them.....I don't think that having electric motors doing the adjusting for me would have made much, if any difference.

You mention the small gas-tank size limiting cruise-range. First, the average driver in this car probably wouldn't be using very much gas anyway....unless, like you suggest, one is on a long trip. Second, gas can sometimes deteriorate or go bad if it sits in the tank too long without being used. Some Volt owners find themselves gassing up once every couple of months or so.....sometimes longer than that, if they only make short commutes and recharge with the plug-in every night. Third, with the Volt's (IMO) so-so front seat comfort, I don't think I'd want to take a long trip in it myself.....definitely not in the rear seat. Fourth, if long cruising-range is an issue, Chevy will gladly sell you a Cruze Diesel (see my previous review/test-drive) and its 700+ mile range....although they are (currently) in short supply at dealerships, and its drive train lacks the butter-smoothness of the Volt's.

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Old 03-18-17, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
The C-Max Energi is a very nice product. It has significantly more room inside (particularly headroom) than the Volt for tall people. If space-efficiency were a big issue with me, I'd get the C-Max over the Volt in an instant. But the Volt's butter-smooth drivetrain can seduce you if you can tolerate the somewhat El Cheapo and uncomfortable seats and interior.

As for the power seat issue, I agree that it is nice, if possible, to have the motors doing the work for you. But I personally found that, in both the cloth and leather-seat versions of the Volt, I was somewhat uncomfortable on the firm seat-padding and back-rest no matter how I adjusted them.....I don't think that having electric motors doing the adjusting for me would have made much, if any difference.

You mention the small gas-tank size limiting cruise-range. First, the average driver in this car probably wouldn't be using very much gas anyway....unless, like you suggest, one is on a long trip. Second, gas can sometimes deteriorate or go bad if it sits in the tank too long without being used. Some Volt owners find themselves gassing up once every couple of months or so.....sometimes longer than that, if they only make short commutes and recharge with the plug-in every night. Third, with the Volt's (IMO) so-so front seat comfort, I don't think I'd want to take a long trip in it myself.....definitely not in the rear seat. Fourth, if long cruising-range is an issue, Chevy will gladly sell you a Cruze Diesel (see my previous review/test-drive) and its 700+ mile range....although they are (currently) in short supply at dealerships, and its drive train lacks the butter-smoothness of the Volt's.
Yes, the Cmax has been a good vehicle. The problem with them are they are still low in electric range compared to the Volt. Additionally, over the 3 years, my electric range went from 22 originally to about half that. "Normal" and in the fine print. The Volt will no doubt be subject to the same battery degradation. This is NOT covered under the batteries warranty unless it happens very prematurely.

I work for Chevrolet and I would not consider a Cruze of any trim level over a Honda or Toyota.

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Old 03-18-17, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by DP03
Yes, the Cmax has been a good vehicle. The problem with them are they are still low in electric range compared to the Volt. Additionally, over the 3 years, my electric range went from 22 originally to about half that. "Normal" and in the fine print. The Volt will no doubt be subject to the same battery degradation. This is NOT covered under the batteries warranty unless it happens very prematurely.
Since you work for Chevy, then you probably know that Volt batteries (like those on any hybrid, by Federal law) are warrantied at least 8 years, and, in some cases up to 10 or 12.

I work for Chevrolet and I would not consider a Cruze of any trim level over a Honda or Toyota.
Understood, but I only mentioned the Cruze Diesel because of your range-concerns and its drive-all-day, 700 mile range (which will easily outlast the average human bladder LOL)
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Old 03-18-17, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
Since you work for Chevy, then you probably know that Volt batteries (like those on any hybrid, by Federal law) are warrantied at least 8 years, and, in some cases up to 10 or 12.



Understood, but I only mentioned the Cruze Diesel because of your range-concerns and its drive-all-day, 700 mile range (which will easily outlast the average human bladder LOL)
They are warrantied against "failures". Loss of power reserve is considered normal and is disclosed in the fine print. Any of today's plug ins will have a significant loss of electric range in 3 years (not sure about Tesla). That's one of the main reasons I leased, which I don't normally do. That being said, the Volt is clearly ahead of it's competition right now on electric range.
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Old 03-18-17, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
You're right. I didn't specifically mention it......I went back and added that to the gas/electric-mileage ratings. Of course, that is an arbitrary figure that is good only under the most ideal of conditions.......mild weather, good visibility (no climate-control or wiper use), level road surfaces, and light weight/load in the vehicle. As the disclaimer so often says (and means)..."Your mileage will vary".
that info is just to cover people that drive like idiots, LOL -- most owners are reporting more than 53 miles of EV range..... http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread....h-the-new-Volt

Last edited by bagwell; 03-18-17 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 03-18-17, 09:04 AM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by DP03
They are warrantied against "failures". Loss of power reserve is considered normal and is disclosed in the fine print. Any of today's plug ins will have a significant loss of electric range in 3 years (not sure about Tesla). That's one of the main reasons I leased, which I don't normally do. That being said, the Volt is clearly ahead of it's competition right now on electric range.
Loss of electric range comes from degradation of the battery, which is caused by loss of electrical capacity. All batteries will lose some capacity over time but can be alleviated somewhat by careful management of battery charging and discharging: Do not overcharge and do not discharge too low.

That said, I have not seen any studies that claim that there is "a significant loss of electric range in 3 years"; there will be some battery capacity loss in 3 years but not "significant".
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Old 03-18-17, 09:12 AM
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Thanks, Mike. I have a few questions and comments.

Firstly, did you actually see Chevrolet use the term "VVT-i" or did Chevy use the generic term "VVT"? I believe that "VVT-i" is, in fact, a Toyota trademark (meaning "Variable Valve Timing with intelligence"). The general acronym "VVT" means "variable valve timing".

Secondly, I agree with this:

Originally Posted by mmarshall
Some of the specs on this car are not easy to get, even on Chevy's own website.
In my opinion, this has led to a lot of speculation, which means there is a lot of misinformation (and alternate facts) about this rather complex technology. Some misinformation is, in fact, fueled by GM marketing: The tag line "extended range electric vehicle" is a marketing term that leads many to believe that the Volt is an electric vehicle with a small gasoline engine that does nothing but charge the battery (i.e. a serial hybrid).

The Volt is, in fact, a parallel-serial hybrid, very similar in operating principles to the Toyota Prius. So this statement is incorrect:

Originally Posted by mmarshall
As mentioned above, the electric motors and transmission/final drive provides the actual drive-power for the car, with the gas engine simply acting as a generator when needed.
I found this statement from Andrew Farah, the Volt's chief engineer:

Once the batteries are depleted, Farah says, “the most efficient thing to do is to take torque from the engine to the wheels. So we will actually do that more often.”
Source: Car and Driver

Parallel-serial hybrids have the following drive modes:
  1. Electric vehicle (EV) mode allows the car to be driven by the electric drive motor only, running on electricity from the hybrid battery.
  2. Serial hybrid mode still drives the car only with the electric motor but the internal combustion engine is running, but ONLY to provide electricity (to turn the electric motor and/or recharge the battery).
  3. Parallel hybrid mode drives the car with the electric drive motor and the engine in parallel, when the electric motor by itself cannot provide enough power to drive the car.
The Gen2 Volt (and the new Prius) have another mode (a second parallel mode) when the single electric drive motor cannot provide enough power: the second motor (which usually acts as a generator) turns on so that both electric motors are driving the car in parallel. The Gen1 Volt and earlier Prius models did not have this second parallel mode.
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Old 03-18-17, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bagwell
most owners are reporting more than 53 miles of EV range.....
Yes....sometimes careful drivers can sometimes do better than the EPA or manufacturer figures. A number of people, though, tend to have a heavy right foot.
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Old 03-18-17, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by bagwell
most owners are reporting more than 53 miles of EV range..... http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread....h-the-new-Volt
The 53-mile EV range (85-kilometre EV range according to the Canadian website) is by no means an arbitrary figure. It was likely mathematically calculated (from the actual battery capacity), then validated by "real world" testing, and then averaged. As they say, "Your mileage may vary" -- some will attain less range, some will actually attain greater range, and other will probably attain this range.
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Old 03-18-17, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Sulu
Thanks, Mike.
Any Time.


Firstly, did you actually see Chevrolet use the term "VVT-i" or did Chevy use the generic term "VVT"? I believe that "VVT-i" is, in fact, a Toyota trademark (meaning "Variable Valve Timing with intelligence"). The general acronym "VVT" means "variable valve timing".
Chevy itself uses the term VVT for the gas engine. Here's the literal spec from the web site:
  • 1.5L Variable Valve Timing (VVT) with a Direct Injection (DI) DOHC 4-cylinder engine
Yes, the VVT-i (for intelligence) can sometimes get confused with the "i" for "injection". Thanks. It's a valid point. I'll correct the typo.



In my opinion, this has led to a lot of speculation, which means there is a lot of misinformation (and alternate facts) about this rather complex technology. Some misinformation is, in fact, fueled by GM marketing: The tag line "extended range electric vehicle" is a marketing term that leads many to believe that the Volt is an electric vehicle with a small gasoline engine that does nothing but charge the battery (i.e. a serial hybrid).

The Volt is, in fact, a parallel-serial hybrid, very similar in operating principles to the Toyota Prius. So this statement is incorrect:



I found this statement from Andrew Farah, the Volt's chief engineer:



Source: Car and Driver

Parallel-serial hybrids have the following drive modes:
  1. Electric vehicle (EV) mode allows the car to be driven by the electric drive motor only, running on electricity from the hybrid battery.
  2. Serial hybrid mode still drives the car only with the electric motor but the internal combustion engine is running, but ONLY to provide electricity (to turn the electric motor and/or recharge the battery).
  3. Parallel hybrid mode drives the car with the electric drive motor and the engine in parallel, when the electric motor by itself cannot provide enough power to drive the car.
The Gen2 Volt (and the new Prius) have another mode (a second parallel mode) when the single electric drive motor cannot provide enough power: the second motor (which usually acts as a generator) turns on so that both electric motors are driving the car in parallel. The Gen1 Volt and earlier Prius models did not have this second parallel mode.
I tried to describe it pretty much the same way you that and Farah do. I paid a lot of attention to the drive-train during the test-drive (and there is a power-flow graph on the video-screen that tells you which engine is working, and now much, though there is no tach for the gas engine). The electric motors always drive the front wheels, though they are recharged by the gas engine as needed, You can hear the gas engine cut in and out, at cruise, without any bump or vibrations, because the gas engine's direct torque (or start-up) never reaches the wheels...it's all done through the electrics.

That's one thing I really like about this drive train...and why I spoke of it so highly. It offers full-electric smoothness and torque with gas-boosted range....pretty much the best of both worlds. I think GM really has something with this drive train....it's a shame that the same attention wasn't put into the rest of the car, but I guess that's one way they keep the price down.

Last edited by mmarshall; 03-18-17 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 03-18-17, 10:27 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by Sulu
Loss of electric range comes from degradation of the battery, which is caused by loss of electrical capacity. All batteries will lose some capacity over time but can be alleviated somewhat by careful management of battery charging and discharging: Do not overcharge and do not discharge too low.

That said, I have not seen any studies that claim that there is "a significant loss of electric range in 3 years"; there will be some battery capacity loss in 3 years but not "significant".
Perhaps the Volt will be different. The capacity loss on my Cmax was over 40% over 3 years, which to me is significant. I was using 220V charging, which is much faster than 110. But most plug in customers will tire of the long 110 charge time pretty quick.

Last edited by DP03; 03-18-17 at 10:50 AM.
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