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Actually most people thought the Lexus cars were better.
Even the biased mags honored cars like the LS, SC, GS and RX.
Some of these were really incredible cars and way better than competition.
You lived in a different world than I did LOL. I remember reading articles about the LS (which is what we had) being "thrown to the soulless scrap heap", I endured lots of "fancy Toyota" jabs and "Why wouldn't you get an S Class, couldn't you afford one" jabs. In all honestly, my Lexus cars get a lot more respect now than they did then.
Like I said, rose colored glasses looking at the past.
Yes Lexus sells a lot still but its really RX, ES and NX.
Where is the innovative tech or engines? New segments? Convertibles? Etc.
Not everything needs to be tangible. Though for what it's worth there is new innovative technology. The 2018 LS is a prime example:
The LS will feature the brand’s Lexus Safety System + and offer the Advanced Safety Package, which features the world’s first system with Intuitive Pedestrian Detection with Active Steering within the lane. With this system, if a pedestrian is detected in the lane ahead and a collision is imminent, the LS is designed to automatically brake and potentially steer around the person while staying in the lane
World's largest HUD 24"
Much of what makes Lexus so special is their philosophy.
Omotenashi, is the concept of Japanese hospitality. Applied to a luxury automobile, it means taking care of the driver and passengers, anticipating their needs, attending to their comfort, and helping to protect them from hazards. Omotenashi is valued by Lexus as a means of ensuring that their vehicles exceed expectations. It involves close attention to detail and a personalized approach which understands that every customer is different. The aim is to create a refined interior environment which places customers at the center of the Lexus experience – calm, in complete control, and delighting in every moment.
Ex. Latest LS500
Lighting and attention to detail express a unique aesthetic in the LS. A new approach to creating trim elements again turned to Japanese culture, combining traditional Japanese aesthetic with advanced manufacturing techniques. This is reflected in signature touches, such as beautiful interior ambient lighting inspired by Japanese lanterns and armrests that appear to float next to the door panel.
Not everything needs to be tangible. Though for what it's worth there is new innovative technology. The 2018 LS is a prime example:
Much of what makes Lexus so special is their philosophy.
Omotenashi, is the concept of Japanese hospitality. Applied to a luxury automobile, it means taking care of the driver and passengers, anticipating their needs, attending to their comfort, and helping to protect them from hazards. Omotenashi is valued by Lexus as a means of ensuring that their vehicles exceed expectations. It involves close attention to detail and a personalized approach which understands that every customer is different. The aim is to create a refined interior environment which places customers at the center of the Lexus experience – calm, in complete control, and delighting in every moment.
Ex. Latest LS500
Welp, since you cant "feel" and "touch" philosophy, its an invaluable variable!
Actually most people thought the Lexus cars were better.
Even the biased mags honored cars like the LS, SC, GS and RX.
Some of these were really incredible cars and way better than competition.
Lexus was able to do what no one except for maybe Tesla had accomplished. Build a brand out of nothing and make it a major player.
Yes Lexus sells a lot still but its really RX, ES and NX.
Where is the innovative tech or engines? New segments? Convertibles? Etc.
They had momentum to be the greatest Luxury brand but they are settling for just being good, which is OK bec they are making lots of $$$$$. But rumors of GS being discontinued, F cars not selling, while other brands are flooding the market with new models and crazy performance cars.....anyway it is what it is.
Lexus was not built from nothing. Lexus is the high end Toyota division. Lexus was built on the founding principles of Toyota....Don't forget Toyota had a RWD flagship at the launch of the LS400 and it coexisted for a few model years.
Toyota also used the Toyota brand as leveragefor a while. Lexus dealers were side by side with Toyota dealers. Both brands were side by side at auto show circuits, and when Toyota introduced Thier current logo they debuted it alongside the Lexus logo at the same time. It's only recently that Lexus and Toyota have been viewed as more and more separate.
Sometimes I have a feeling that there is some sort of agreement between German and Japanese manufacturers that Japanese will always stay a few steps behind.
Sometimes I have a feeling that there is some sort of agreement between German and Japanese manufacturers that Japanese will always stay a few steps behind.
There is no such thing at all.
I happen to work in infotainment industry as a software engineer, designing a car from scratch will spend unbelievable amount of money, let along the complexity of integration with 3rd party's technology.
German and US car companies intend to let some high tech companies to help them design the infotainment system, the car company itself only do feature design, system integration and road test.
Japanese car companies intend to do all these on their own, so the Japanese pace is little bit slow, but the overall quality is better.
My wording with 'tangible' was in response to the "where is the innovation?", to which I mentioned Lexus SS+AP and 24" HUD. My wording with philosophy is separate and highlighting that luxury doesn't just mean the physical, but also the 'behind the scenes', things you don't have to think about, and the stories that led to the culmination of each Lexus generation.
Originally Posted by CRowe14
Welp, since you cant "feel" and "touch" philosophy, its an invaluable variable!
Invaluable? Signs of Omotenashi can be found everywhere on your LS and of LS's and Lexus's past. Things many take for granted.
The LS uses the award-winning Lexus Nanoe air conditioning also seen on the GS, which purifies the air to eliminate smells, while deodorizing seats and the roof lining. Even designed to moisturize skin and hair.
Lexus Climate Concierge automatically adjusts cabin, seat and steering wheel temperatures in concert. Additionally, infrared sensors track the body temperature of your rear seat passengers, adjusting air conditioning and seat heating/cooling accordingly.
The LS is one of the quietest car in its class. The LS is built using a laser screw welding technique that enables panels to fit together perfectly, increasing rigidity and allowing near-silent running, even at motorway speeds.
Even stories about the processes make the car feel special
Lexus offers an optional wooden steering wheel for its flagship model the Lexus LS. The steering wheel is designed, using exclusive Shimamoku wood by alternating layers layers of dark and light wood venners. The complete manufacturing process consists of 67 operations and takes 31 days.
The Japanese automaker proves that attention to details is everything, when it comes to luxury vehicles. The sound of the engine on one of the first Lexus LS models was adjusted with the support of musical instruments manufacturer Yamaha.
Originally Posted by sears1234
Japanese car companies intend to do all these on their own, so the Japanese pace is little bit slow, but the overall quality is better.
Spot on Lexus was so slow returning to the turbo game with the 2.0T (and now the 3.5TT), but all this is done in-house and better quality control. Making sure i's are dotted and t's crossed.
This isn't just a thread about lexus is ugly. this is about the direction lexus is taking. January sales figures don't lie and overall they are on downward trend with a lot of their models.
Let's just be completely honest with ourselves here, you're merely cherry picking January sales because it fits into your agenda, aka confirmation bias. But you obviously won't post 2016 calendar year sales figures or even Dec. 2016 sales figures because it would contradict your agenda.
Growth of 4RX sales is arguably higher than growth of 3RX sales and many people said the 4RX would fail, "bcuz spindle". So many were wrong, some eventually caved and even bought one themselves and love it.
I don't understand how any reasonable person can see Lexus' model lineup and sales and then come to the conclusion that they don't have "mass market appeal". Cognitive dissonance might explain it. Emotion vs reason.
Is Lexus going the way of Acura?
Google Lexus LC500 and read all of the reviews in the first page and you'll know which direction Lexus is going in because it is generally agreed that Lexus is going in the UP direction, competing against the best that BMW, MB, Jaguar, Maserati, Porsche have to offer. Many auto writers are obviously excited for the LC and what is signifies for Lexus' future.
Why is the LFA still Jeremy Clarkson's favorite supercar all time? Why did he also say the GSF was the best sports sedan? Because he is blind and couldn't see that Lexus is obviously becoming Acura?
I've noticed this trend where owners of older designs will be very critical of new designs, it probably has more to do with envy but sometimes they are just unnerved that their car isn't the newest one on the block. Psychologically, its just a way of coping with the current reality.
Lets face it folks, the spindle grill is as ugly as the old acura beak grille and doesn't really appeal to the mass market. Lexus powertrains are ancient and are under powered compared to main competitors (Benz and BMW). Next flagship LS offers no V8 similar to Acuras flagship sedan rla/rlx. Lexus heavily relys on SUV sales and their F brand following is nowhere near M or AMG. If Lexus continues their stubborn path of not keeping up with competition and not listening to customer needs will they become the next Acura? Discuss......
IMO, Lexus has a new President in grandson Akio Toyoda.
He wants TMC to have more inspired styling, and more inspired dynamics.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
However, what is done is done.
TMC is presently going through a rough patch with styling and some firm rides.
TMC burnt a lot of money on hybrids, and hydrogen fuel cells, when the market actually moved towards small capacity turbos, and longer EV range plug-in hybrids PHEV's.
I'm sure TMC will settle down.
Acura on the otherhand went staid with styling, and they never moved into rear wheel drive, nor a true full sized luxury sedan.
IMO, Lexus has a new President in grandson Akio Toyoda.
He wants TMC to have more inspired styling, and more inspired dynamics.
I think you're wrong. Akio Toyoda clearly saw Lexus for what it really was, so they set a new daring path for ugly designs and outdated powertrains to out-Acura, Acura.
I've noticed this trend where owners of older designs will be very critical of new designs, it probably has more to do with envy but sometimes they are just unnerved that their car isn't the newest one on the block. Psychologically, its just a way of coping with the current reality.
Well, sometimes that's true and sometimes it isn't. Take Ford's SYNC/MYTouch and GM's new E-shifters. Both ran (or are running) into serious opposition and a high level of complaints, both in the auto press and among general auto-buyers in public. That opposition isn't just a bunch of disgruntled people getting together and deciding to toss stones for the sake of tossing...or that they "can't cope with reality". IN reality, those two systems (and some similar ones) have some significant problems, and would have perhaps been best not adopted. Same with Acura's parrot-beak grille. Acura, as a company, suffered greatly because, except perhaps for the MDX, consumers simply rejected that design, and Acura officials refused to listen, until too late, when a lot of damage had been done. As far as the Lexus spindle grilles go, it is probably too early to come to any real conclusion....so I'm not going to make a long-term prediction on that one. There is evidence both ways...they have helped the company in some ways, and hurt in others.
I owned the RL and to me it was an overpriced Accord; same size and V6 engine. I actually liked it, but eh, it was an accord.
The LS was a big step up for me to car that Acura offered no equivalent. It was bigger than anything else Acura offered and it had a V8, something Acura definitely didn't offer.
I do feel that the top-shelf car defined the brand and Acura always felt a step below Lexus because it lacked that true flagship.
Of course, the V8 in the LS is gone now, so that's one strike, but it still has that size that Acura just doesn't offer. Even the newer RL is a runt and almost a foot shorter than the L.
Lexus will be Acura the day it fluffs up a Camry and calls it the flagship. It's not there....yet and let's hope that day never comes.
02-17-17, 10:35 AM
Lexus was so slow returning to the turbo game with the 2.0T (and now the 3.5TT), but all this is done in-house and better quality control. Making sure i's are dotted and t's crossed.
