pman6

Apple maintains its luxury status by taking stuff away..... headphone jacks, macbook ports and card readers.
Luxury by omission?

The new bmw 5 series has both touchscreen and idrive redundancy for those who still want to use remote control. Also fold down rear seats for extra cargo, like a big screen tv.

Can't do that in a GS... And one of those things can't be done in a merc.

I never understood why the Camry had fold down rear seats, but my old es300 twin brother only had a stupid passthrough, as if we're supposed to thumb our nose at those lowly fold down seats.

Yes, less utility = luxury

JDR76

I had folding seats in my IS but never used them, so that doesn't bother me.

As as for touch screens, I still hate them.

My my number one for luxury is a quiet ride.

mmarshall

Omitting fold-down rear seats is not necessarily a cost-cutting measure, as noted by the fact that some quite expensive vehicles also do so. To have the fold-down feature in the rear usually means loss of the cross-bracing that runs between the two sides of the rear unibody frame, resulting in some loss of frame-rigidity and a tendency for the frame to twist while cornering. (in automotive layman's terms, that's called lateral-stiffness, as opposed to longitudinal stiffness, which means resistance to fore/aft bending). A stiffer frame is beneficial in a number of ways....handling/steering response, door-fit, suspension-alignment under load, and tire wear, to name a few.

Most vehicles today that lack the fold-down feature DO include a pass-through in the middle of the rear seat (sometimes lockable) that will accommodate long, narrow items like skis, fishing poles, golf clubs, etc.....

dseag2

My A4 has fold-down rear seats and is as structurally rigid as any car I've ever driven. I use my fold-down rear seats and want them. I missed them in my '13 GS.

As for touchscreen, no thanks. IMO, it is a step backwards. It is difficult to use while moving and is a fingerprint magnet. Anyone who wants touchscreen can still opt for the Infiniti Q50 or Acura TLX. That is one of the reasons they were off my list when I chose my A4.

mmarshall

Torsional rigidity, of course, can be made up for in some other ways. But, in general, loss of the rear brace means loss of at least some rigidity. The less rigidity lost, of course, the better the car's overall engineering....and Audi, of course, has recently gotten a very good reputation.


Couldn't agree more.......a PITA when trying to use one on a bumpy road, with your finger jerking around.

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

Hate touch screen, mainly because of the finger prints!
and having to raise my arm to operate the screen is very tiring! I'm spoiled with BMW's idrive, it still one of the best infotainment system on the market to use.

Toys4RJill

Apple does not maintain its luxury status by away stuff. And less utility does = luxury.

RXSF

The OP is not advocating just for touchscreen, but to have redundancy built in, so you can have both remote touch and touch screen. This way, everyone is happy.

Toys4RJill

If you look at the design of the LC. How would they be able to do both touch and remote touch?

pman6

I've heard that cross bracing argument, and I don't buy it.

If bmw and merc can have fold down seats in cars that handle great, so can everyone else.
Certainly it shouldn't be an issue in the ES, which is not supposed to be a dynamically handling car like the 5 series. In fact, my ES has the large hole that could accommodate fold down seats, but lexus decided not to put those seats in.

pman6

You sound like a guy who uses a blackberry, where everything is controlled by the **** in the middle...

pman6

There's gotta be a good reason why BMW brought back the touch screen after all these years.

Perhaps people like the quickness of their smart phones, and want the same in a car, and you're really not fidgeting with the infotainment that much?

Redundancy is good though. With some things, touch is much faster.

I've driven newer lexus loaner cars, and I don't see any extra benefit with pushing the screen as far away as possible. Even at the current distance, when I drive a lexus and look at the screen, the road ahead still becomes a blur in my peripheral vision, and if you look at the screen too long, you still risk crashing into the car ahead.
So I think Lexus should bring the screen back to where it was years ago, within arm's reach.

There really is no optimal location for the infotainment except for the heads-up display location directly in front of the driver, but that location can't contain too much info for obvious reasons.

Toys4RJill

I can't imagine that there are that many buyers that really need rear folding rear seats in a Lexus car. I can understand perhaps an IS needing them if they competition has it, but cars like the ES or GS I can't understand the need. If fold down rear seats are an absolute deal breaker, then perhaps a four door sedan is the wrong vehicle for the person who is buying the car. Lexus clearly does not have them in some vehicles for cost reasons.

Toys4RJill

How often does one buy a big screen TV. Best Buy has free delivery.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

I love the rear folding seat feature, but I find it kind of silly the ES, GS, and LS (non executive) lack it. The good news is the 3rd generation IS has the feature, and likely to spread to the 5th gen GS and 7th gen ES. Lexus Advisory Board consistently asks Lexus owners about the feature.

Remote touch works just fine, especially when you adjust 'FEEDBACK FORCE'. A touch screen option like on some new BMW's (you can use iDrive or touchscreen) would be nice.

Honestly I'd be more excited when Lexus brings back the sunglasses holder. The 2016 RX is the first to get it back. The Lexus sedans don't have them!