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My wife and I are big minivan converts. It pained us to do it, but the minivan really does add a lot of convenience to our lives getting around with the kids. It'll never be a vehicle that I'm passionate about, or enjoy driving as a vehicle, but its a valuable living tool...lets put it that way.
I also am coming around to the idea of a "Lexus minivan". When you look around here a LOT of the minivans you see are really highly optioned models, Elite Odysseys, Limited Siennas, Limited Pacificas. Driven by a lot of well heeled families, I bet people would buy a $60-65,000 Lexus version of the Sienna...
The issue for Lexus would be market. Minivans are really only sold here in the US, so their only market would be here and the question is would a vehicle that would really be a niche vehicle and only sellable here (and likely not in high numbers), would it make business sense for them to develop such a vehicle? Especially with minivan sales trending downwards year after year?
While they give up a lot of machismo points to an SUV, particularly the full-size models, today's minivans aren't too much worse looking than most of the sedans on the market. When you consider the efficient packaging and the utility of a minivan, they get competitive real fast.
If course there's the stigma of a mommyvan showing up a car meet, but you can always park a block away.
While they give up a lot of machismo points to an SUV, particularly the full-size models, today's minivans aren't too much worse looking than most of the sedans on the market. When you consider the efficient packaging and the utility of a minivan, they get competitive real fast.
If course there's the stigma of a mommyvan showing up a car meet, but you can always park a block away.
The fact that the OP has a Pilot but mentioned a LC, or LX or other luxury models tells me there is a market for Lexus to make a van. Stigma won't last long as long as it's nice.
If Lexus were to sell a minivan, the only way I think people would buy it is if it looked nothing like the Sienna. IE different body shell, not just a different nose tacked on a Sienna. Maybe bring over the Toyota Alphard from Japan???? Although I don't think those are as big as US spec minivans, I know they're narrower to fit down congested streets in places like Toyko, Hong Kong, Bangkok, Siagon, etc
While they give up a lot of machismo points to an SUV, particularly the full-size models, today's minivans aren't too much worse looking than most of the sedans on the market. When you consider the efficient packaging and the utility of a minivan, they get competitive real fast.
If course there's the stigma of a mommyvan showing up a car meet, but you can always park a block away.
Yes, Bob, the mommy-van stigma does exist, but I don't agree with that stigma......never did, and never will. Minivans may not have the panache of luxury or sports cars, but they are, without question, the best and most practical vehicles on the market for millions of families across the country. I think the main reason that SUVs outsell them is that Toyota, with the Sienna, is the only manufacturer to market a minivan here in the U.S. with AWD...an important necessity for those in bad-weather areas. FWD, though, will usually do in all but the worst of conditions.
I miss the confidence inspired by the 4WD on my Suburbans and first RX - I know it's not really practical 99.44% of the time, and it costs you gas and additional maintenance, but when you don't have it there's always something that seems to be missing.
Example: My daughter cut a corner a little too close last month coming out of a local gas station, dropping a rear wheel of her pickup into a deep ditch, leaving the truck sitting on the frame with the right rear suspended in mid-air and the left front with a tenuous grip on mother earth. She was stuck, and called me for help. I drove over, took her key and started the engine. She and the gathering crowd thought I'd gone nuts. Fortunately her ancient Dakota is a 4WD model, so I just pulled it into 4L and eased on a tiny bit of throttle. With 2½ -wheel drive, it crawled out of the hole on its own with no fuss whatsoever. Put it back in 2H and handed off the keys. Job done. Try that with your 2WD luxoboat. That additional drive axle can be the difference between a couple minutes' delay and a towing fee.
I miss the confidence inspired by the 4WD on my Suburbans and first RX - I know it's not really practical 99.44% of the time, and it costs you gas and additional maintenance, but when you don't have it there's always something that seems to be missing.
Example: My daughter cut a corner a little too close last month coming out of a local gas station, dropping a rear wheel of her pickup into a deep ditch, leaving the truck sitting on the frame with the right rear suspended in mid-air and the left front with a tenuous grip on mother earth. She was stuck, and called me for help. I drove over, took her key and started the engine. She and the gathering crowd thought I'd gone nuts. Fortunately her ancient Dakota is a 4WD model, so I just pulled it into 4L and eased on a tiny bit of throttle. With 2½ -wheel drive, it crawled out of the hole on its own with no fuss whatsoever. Put it back in 2H and handed off the keys. Job done. Try that with your 2WD luxoboat. That additional drive axle can be the difference between a couple minutes' delay and a towing fee.
You were able to do that because the Dakota, like most older 4WD pickups, had a "part-time" 4WD system and low range, without a center differential or other torque-distribution system, that, in either 4H or 4L, locked up and rotated all four wheels at the same speed, and didn't allow any wheel to slip. Electronic and/or center-coupling, car-based AWD systems may or may not allow that (depending on the specific condition the vehicle is stuck in, and if there is a differential-lock), as they don't necessarily feed power to a stalled wheel through a locked system. Pickups were among the last of all vehicles to convert from part-time to full-time AWD or On-Demand 4WD.....only some have done so, and some still retain the old off-road part-time system.
Last edited by mmarshall; Nov 5, 2016 at 08:02 PM.
There's a tremendous difference between 4WD and AWD. 4WD is for genuine trail busting and rock climbing on low-traction surfaces, AWD is handy for any low-traction situation . . . except that most are severely limited offroad without that positive lock-up. I've had both, and now prefer AWD for its full-time usefulness as I don't offroad much any more.
As an aside, you never want to lend your 4WD to an inexperienced person. I lent my first 4WD 3/4 ton Suburban to a lady to haul her horse trailer out of a field. She didn't mention that field was nearly 300 miles away. When I got it back it shed the drive chain in the transfer case that she'd left engaged in 4H in the pasture, then drove it all the way home in 4H on a dry road. With nothing in the driveline to slip, it finally broke that roller chain in the transfer case into little pieces about six blocks from my house. I limped it home using FWD only. Expensive fix, that.
There's a tremendous difference between 4WD and AWD. 4WD is for genuine trail busting and rock climbing on low-traction surfaces, AWD is handy for any low-traction situation . . . except that most are severely limited offroad without that positive lock-up. I've had both, and now prefer AWD for its full-time usefulness as I don't offroad much any more.
As an aside, you never want to lend your 4WD to an inexperienced person. I lent my first 4WD 3/4 ton Suburban to a lady to haul her horse trailer out of a field. She didn't mention that field was nearly 300 miles away. When I got it back it shed the drive chain in the transfer case that she'd left engaged in 4H in the pasture, then drove it all the way home in 4H on a dry road. With nothing in the driveline to slip, it finally broke that roller chain in the transfer case into little pieces about six blocks from my house. I limped it home using FWD only. Expensive fix, that.
I guess you mean 4Low since 4H is what is usually meant to be driven normally.
TBH 4WD is only part of the equation. Tires, Driver experience, and ground clearance are some of the other things that you need to drive on low traction situations. Some AWD systems are reactive and that lag between sense and apply can put your in a bad spot, but the lack of knowledge some 4wders is makes both systems about identical in practicality. Its like when I see the numerous range rovers get stuck in snowstorms cause they thought terrain management system was the replacement for common sense. its from the same company that makes the legendary defender smh
There's a tremendous difference between 4WD and AWD. 4WD is for genuine trail busting and rock climbing on low-traction surfaces, AWD is handy for any low-traction situation . . . except that most are severely limited offroad without that positive lock-up. I've had both, and now prefer AWD for its full-time usefulness as I don't offroad much any more.
Granted, part-time 4WD is far superior off-road....simpler, more durable, and with fewer parts to break (as long as you are not on a paved dry surface). That's one reason (besides low cost) why the Jeep Wrangler, arguably the country's most popular off-roader, has stuck with it since its inception in 1941.
As an aside, you never want to lend your 4WD to an inexperienced person. I lent my first 4WD 3/4 ton Suburban to a lady to haul her horse trailer out of a field. She didn't mention that field was nearly 300 miles away. When I got it back it shed the drive chain in the transfer case that she'd left engaged in 4H in the pasture, then drove it all the way home in 4H on a dry road. With nothing in the driveline to slip, it finally broke that roller chain in the transfer case into little pieces about six blocks from my house. I limped it home using FWD only. Expensive fix, that.
Ouch! Well, anyhow, being the Christian that you are, I'm sure you forgave her, and just let her chalk it up to some driving experience. Sometimes we learn by making mistakes.
Actually, even on a dry road, a part-time system will not necessarily bind up or be damaged as long as all four wheels continually roll straight, at about the same wheel-revolutions per minute.....say, on a long, straight highway. Under those conditions, there is little, if any strain on the system. The potential damage happens when you try to go around a dry curve (particularly sharp ones) with that set-up. The outer wheels inevitably want to spin faster around the curve than the inner ones, but the system doesn't allow the necessary slip to do so. The result, of course, is often scrubbed tires and/or strained or broken drivetrain parts.
Last edited by mmarshall; Nov 5, 2016 at 08:17 PM.
I can understand why other carmakers don't rush to make AWD minivans. I came from having 4WD SUVs when we traded the Jeep for the van. One of the big reasons why I was leaning towards the Sienna, even though of the 3 vans at the top of my list, the Sedona, the Odyssey and the Sienna it was my least favorite, was the AWD and wanting that after having the Jeeps. However, now that I have the Sedona and I've gotten used to not having our big travel vehicle AWD it no longer bothers me. First off, I'm not going to be traveling in a snowstorm with my kids. Before we had kids my wife and I would jump in the Jeep and drive 300 miles into a snowstorm for the weekend no problem, but with the kids your threshold for risk diminishes lol. Even if it didn't, an AWD minivan with 6 inches of ground clearance isn't going to get me where my 4x4 Jeep with 11 inches would get me. It will be more stable getting up to speed in a few inches of snow, thats all. If I would travel in the winter to say go skiing or something, I would take the Jeep. But...I'm not going to take the van and leave my wife and kids without their van. Even if I would...I don't enjoy driving the van so I wouldn't even want to do that anyways.
To me thats what really made it okay for me to trade my Jeep which I liked a lot on the van. I wouldn't have gotten to drive the Jeep much anyways after they were born because I wouldn't have wanted to leave them without their vehicle with all their stuff in it, etc.
So, in that I drive it on trips, when we all go somewhere together, once a month to get it washed, and a couple times a year to get it serviced and otherwise I don't mess with it I'm content to own it lol
The fact that the OP has a Pilot but mentioned a LC, or LX or other luxury models tells me there is a market for Lexus to make a van. Stigma won't last long as long as it's nice.
If there was a market for a minivan from a luxury make, we would have had one on the market many years ago. That ship has sailed.
